While corporal punishment isn't enlightened, some form of discipline is indeed in order for children much more often than is politically correct these days. Anyway, sort of off topic except it's clear a lot of people grew up without being imprinted with any greater sense of ethics than self interest, which reflects a lack of parental direction.

Alright, i (a moderator) created this thread. I disagree with the most prolific posters in it, all of whom have been faced with the inconsistencies of their ethics and worldview time and time again in this very discussion and gone blithely on in their deliberate ignorance to rail against the very system that has enabled in toto the very discussion being held. If ever there was a time for a moderator to ban users or lock a thread, it's when pathologically selfish and ******ed people are stalking a forum...

But, that's not the policy here, and it has not happened. At some point the thread may be locked just because it has degenerated into nothing but insults, but it will not as long as it remains a free exchange of ideas and stays clear of the few rules we have here.

I just want to make that clear because i don't think your "us-vs-the man" stereotype that included the gatekeepers of this forum is fair or relevant. I realize you may not have been referring to this forum, but just in case...