Hey hey hey. How did we get from the organic community at maemo.org to a place where the suggestions (by none less than a community manager) are to exclude 'plain' users offering them only scraps in the form of "if you do boring work like wiki edits and bug reports, you will have merit and then we'll consider you as a community member". What bug reports, what wiki ? You just sent those people off to a vendor forum ghetto, why would they come back ? How would a non-tech person know whether it's dealing with a vendor bug or a MeeGo bug anyway ? But I'm putting words in other people's mouth by now, so I'll stop my ranting Anyhow, that thread on meego.com sounded an awful lot like elitism to me, and having to move head-on to community managers to make this point is discouraging.