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Nathraiben's Avatar
Posts: 267 | Thanked: 408 times | Joined on May 2010 @ Austria
#421
Originally Posted by ndi View Post
Not if you're doing it wrong. If you expect to get rich from such an app and start a business, no. But let's not forget, people get nice cash out of an app for 40$ phones, you're preaching to 600E.

Write something people actually will use, something cool, and they will come. Get yourself a Paypal account, so people can purchase/donate by mail, safely. Don't go through OVI that starts you off in the negative, than makes it hard for half of Europe to buy.

Think. What do I want from this app? Am I ready to waste a week's worth of evenings for 40$? Do I want the local prestige? Fine, write. Want to get 4 grand? You shouldn't be here.

Ovi's most downloaded is paid. Also, among most platforms, most downloaded apps are paid. Money isn't the problem.

Ovi has exposure for S60, where you browse. N900 has repos, and there's nothing keeping you from distributing a demo, or even a full version and ask for donations.

[cut]

I agree with you, technically. Ovi's solution is for mature markets. But there are alternatives, use them.
YES! That's exactly what we need! Positive examples! Show them potential developers that there ARE alternatives out there. Get them to realise that, while probably not enough to support you, you can earn some fine pocket money by developing for the N900.

Spread it!

And don't start that DRM thing again. The torrents and DC and whatnot are full, FULL with cracked S60 apps and that hasn't exactly killed the business. People who go browsing for cracked versions aren't people who are willing to pay.
Just making sure that this was meant for the general reader, not in direct response to me, for then you would be preaching to the choir. I'm one of the most avid DRM enemies on these forums...

I disagree. While I do support and encourage some developers who wrote some stuff, some of it is ... well, not exactly thanks magnet.

Just because you wrote software doesn't entitle you to prestige. And if you think that you gain respect by just dumping code in an app, you don't understand how prestige works.

Prestige is won, earned, gained. If you are looking for prestige, write something WE want. Ask around, encourage ideas, add options when people like/dislike, instead of simple minded, simple implementation, I-decide-what's-best-for-you, it's-a-port-so-ask-the-developer, I-do-this-for-free-you-owe-me.

How many of the apps here are just straight recompiles? How many are two-liners? How many are write-and-abandon? This isn't how prestige is gained.

Maemo isn't a small obscure platform. It might not be as widely used as others, but still, it's Nokia's best thus far and has the potential for fame.

Some of the developers here have gained quite a few points on Google, and add this platform under their belt. I strongly believe that useful, maintained apps do add to karma.

Bottom line is, prestige is earned, and hard. The good news is, it comes naturally, and a few nay-sayers will not drown the thanks.
Don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to say that everybody who writes a line of code and uploads it to the repositories is entitled to anything.
(Though neither the number of lines, nor the complexity nor whether it's new software or recompiled one really matters - what's important in the end is whether it's useful for the customer.)

Nobody wants to be thanked just because it's free, regardless of the quality of an app - constructive criticism to a product is always welcome, and I know few "serious" developers who don't appreciate it.

But there's a fine line between criticism and flaming someone for being "tha worst dev eva so stop wastin repos space with ya ****". And the most harmful thing is generalising free software as "junk by definition" - imagine you're a new developer bracing yourself to release something for this platform and then you read that people think that (no matter how much effort is put into your project) it's going to be junk because it's free...

Also, they are right. What do you expect from one-man apps? How many great apps are one-man on other platforms? How many games that sell over 10.000 copies are not the product of a team? It might not be the best encouragement, but it's true. User opinions are part of public development. How else would this work? Developer releases 0.1, everyone is in awe, we all agree it's perfect and just leave it like that, there's no need to ever improve.
We have quite a few great applications in the repositories that were made by a single developer, and look at some of the top apps on other mobile platforms: Most of them have a development team of no more than two or three members.

We're not talking about PC games here, but mobile applications, which do pretty well with 1-3 developers.

And who ever talked about not listening to the opinions of the users? Just because there are a handful of quite vocal flamers out there who love to bash projects that doesn't mean that everybody thinks that one-man-applications are junk.

Actually, the less members are in a project team, the higher the probability that the team will LISTEN to user opinions. Look at all the "what do you want for the next release" threads out there, most of which are made by single developers.

Many developers have asked for help from people who don't write for Linux, asked for beta testers, icons, graphics, advice. They generally get them.
I don't remember posting that developers don't get help in this community...

What I wrote was:

Developers get thanks, karma, help, whatever - thus the fuzzy feelings.

Developers get flames, generalisations, and are greeted by "piss off" - thus the disappearance of the fuzzy feelings.

Really? You think that's why there are 5 users? No, there are five users because it's a LOT easier to put together a script that parses a web page and call that an app, than actually doing development.

Sharing addons for local sites, re-re-reimplementations of "simple" browsers, clients, stuff that is either redundant or limited, per-city-only apps, all these have low user base.

You can't have tons of users when you list the program of a city's bus. Not that there's anything wrong witch such an app, great work, but that's really a 5-user app. So are per-site apps, where you need an account. These typically drag, have no testers to be promoted, and either die out or take forever.

I don't think general, useful apps have a userbase problem. Maemo mapper has over one hundred thousand downloads. mplayer and OpenSSH over fifty.

There are quite a few with over 10K (56).
Please read again. I did not say there are only 5 users. I explicitly stated that we have a LOT of users out there and that a LOT of users are appreciating the efforts put into developing good applications.

But thanks to all this talk about how maemo was dead developers who just joined this community THINK that there are no users out there, and that's exactly the problem. WE make them believe it's not worth developing for maemo even though it IS.

And frankly, what difference does it make? You have a great idea, know how to do it, can do it, but won't because not enough people will learn of your greatness?
Why do you care about why a developer is doing what he's doing? Does someone who does it for spreading the word about "his greatness" develop sub-par applications because of it?

There are more than enough GREAT developers out there who do it for the kick of getting know. Heck, developers being egomaniacs is one of the big IT clichés!

Oh, how easy it is to blame the community.
Easier than blaming Nokia?

No money, because community is cheap. No prestige, because community stinks. No fans, because community is small. Heck, you'd think if we had a good app we'd bury it just to be behinds about it.

If you build it, they will come. If it's useful, they will download and install it. If it's really good, they'll pay. Everyone else does. All platforms started SOMEWHERE. It's definitely not impossible. It's definitely hard.

I don't see Wikipedia gasping for air. I don't see chat forums dead. Because they are useful, we want them up and running, and we give what we can. What makes you think this works everywhere else but here?

And the true beauty of it is this: it's hard work, low pay, thankless job. You know, just like everywhere else. Or do you think that developing for iPhone is easy? Or that it's a one-man job? Or that it gets you instant-fame among other half-a-million apps? If anything, you get a lot more exposure here if you want fame, a lot less competition if you want to sell, and it's a lot easier knowing where that bar is now.
Again, please re-read my post. I posted what a developers SEES when he's new to maemo and the reasons that throw off potential new developers.

The problem of this community is not that there's no support for developers. It's not that there's no userbase. It's not that there's nothing to be gained from working on maemo applications.

There's LOTS of support, MANY people who would use a good application, MORE THAN ENOUGH money, fame, exposure to be gained.

But WE AS A COMMUNITY make it LOOK like this is a dead platform inhabited by a mere handful of ungrateful zombies. And that image is what we have to fight in order to attract new developers.
 

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