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Posts: 515 | Thanked: 259 times | Joined on Jan 2010
#97
Originally Posted by Benson View Post
Sorry about that, you know how the human mind loses track of time sometimes. Now that you've reminded me it's the '10s, I'll try a completely different argument: Next time you buy a pizza, if you don't give me half of it, I'm going to call that theft. No, wait, actually, I think I'll just go all-in and call it murder.
Hmm. Interesting argument but that doesn't make any sense at all.

Originally Posted by Benson View Post
I can do that, right? Since in 2010, apparently nobody cares that the definition of theft involves depriving someone of property, just as the definition of murder involves depriving someone of life.
Um... no. Let me explain a bit more clearly. Theft includes the notion electronic media. It's not one or the other. It has been extended to apply for concepts not previously understood.

Originally Posted by Benson View Post
Non-sarcastically, as "sad" as my reusing old arguments may be, attempting to guilt-trip or prejudice by disregarding definitions to call something by a scarier name is even sadder. If your arguments as to why information should receive property-like legal protection, or why that legal protection should be morally binding, cannot stand on their own merit when using accurate terms like "copyright infringement", then you should find some new arguments.
Ok, fine, you should't infringe on the copyrights of someone else's created media. In the case of software, even if you buy a copy of Office or Photoshop. You don't own the software, what you have purchased is an enduser licence RTU (right to use). So to your point about stealing cars, its still theft, but because you're not physically taking an object but violating the terms of the license.

Call it whatever you like, its still wrong.

Originally Posted by Benson View Post
Wow. The ignorance is staggering.
I like to stagger my opponents. ;-)

Originally Posted by Benson View Post
Do you really not know that the publishing lobby's efforts to secure legislation stripping people of their natural right to copy their own property dates to the early days of the printing press, not the "electric box"? The only thing changing in the '80s was the barrier to entry -- and by then, the legal framework of copyright (and the assumption of its moral validity) had already been established with little scrutiny, because at the time it did not really affect most people,
I'm not sure why the actions of the publishing lobby gives you license to use software you have no right to use? My ignorance needs you to be a bit more specific. Help a brother out.

Originally Posted by Benson View Post
Maybe, if you'd even read what I said, you'd realize that I was suggesting a completely different class of business models, where one doesn't speculatively invest in developing a work, then seek ways to force people to pay it back, either directly, or by bartering their eyeballs on a screen, which you in turn sell to advertisers. Business models where you directly sell the service of producing content , and get out of the distribution market altogether.
I don't understand what in the world you mean by "speculatively invest in developing a work".

So let's see, you want software developers to build product but then not sell it. And how would that work? Who's going to pay benevolently for Photoshop or Final Cut Pro to be developed? What, they're going to give it away?

I think you need to make specific examples because what you just said makes no sense.

And BTW, in case you missed it, whatever software theory you might have it still doesn't excuse illegal copy of software. In case you weren't sure where I stood on that. ;-)

Originally Posted by Benson View Post
When I spoke of someone who didn't have money, so they couldn't have bought it, so there was no real or potential lost sale, I was using that as an example to show why that argument is ridiculously broken
Sure, but anyone would make that argument. Try going into the movie theater and doing the same. Go tell the theater owner that the movie sucks, how the studio made crap and somehow promised a great movie and didn't deliver what they promised and that you should watch it for free because you wouldn't have paid for anyways. I'm sure that would go over real well. Oh, and tell them by going to see it, you're actually helping them because the perception is that everyone wants to see the movie because you're also going to see it. I mean if you're going to see a movie, you might as well see their movie so that you don't spend time seeing a competitor's movie right?

GENIUS!

Originally Posted by Benson View Post
-- in fact I consider it ridiculous precisely because, if accepted, it leads to the conclusion that whether piracy is "theft" or not depends on whether the person could have (and, even more awkwardly, would have) purchased it legitimately, which is obvious nonsense.

I completely share your disgust with arguments that the morality of theft, copyright infringement, or anything else should depend on the depth of the perpetrator's pockets.
Ooh, we have common ground. What has the internet come to.