..::N810::..

SPECS:
- Screen 800x480 / 4"
- ARM processor 400 MHz
- MAEMO OS2008 Debian like Linux
- 128MB memory, 2GB internal storage (of which 128MB swap space), max 32GB external MiniSD storage

PRO:
- Open source system full fledged Linux
- No hassles with certificates
- Large screen for a pocket device
- Browser handles virtually all sites properly
- Lots of standard access to and from device (SSH, SFTP, VNC) as it is Linux
- Lots of freeware applications (the only paid application is the excellent Wayfinder Map)
- Can be used as webserver (Apache / Lighttpd with PHP 5)
- No bloated Windows apps (such as PC Suite, Maps Loader) needed for Updates and syncing, it can update itself like a real Linux computer.


CON:
- Somewhat heavy (230g)
- No office suite
- No phone (other than Voip client) but can use a GPRS/UMTS with Bluetooth as a modem
- Some touchscreen elements do not work properly (e.g. you have to click 10x before checkmarks / radio buttons respond)
- Poor GPS


..::5800::..

SPECS:
- Screen 640x360 / 3.5"
- ARM processor 369 MHz
- Symbian S60v5
- 80MB memory (of which 40 MB user memory), max 32GB external MicroSD storage

PRO:
- Smaller pocket size
- Large screen for a phone but smaller than N810
- Touchscreen slightly better than N810 (checkmarks work and feedback by vibrating when touching a valid part of the screen)
- Lots of nice skins available for free

CON:
- No virtual memory which results programs will be killed with a silly 'memory full' message (although this is rather rare compared to older phones)
- Browser not complete yet
- Poor GPS
- Firmware rather buggy (see below)

Notes on 5800:

The firmware (V21.0.025) turns out to be immature. I found these flaws:
- Browser (Web) :Some sites are not rendered properly or even lock up or crash the browser, user agent cannot be changed, which limits some sites (e.g. www.cnn.com, www.smh.com.au, maps.google.com) to see only limited WAP content despite this browser is a 'full web' browser. Furthermore cookies do not work on local pages (i.e. file:/// URLs) which can be useful as offline web appl,ications
- Many S60v3 applications do run on this phone, but do not allow any input. The phone lacks a kind of 'virtual keyboard' application which simulates a hardware keypad with the touchscreen. There are such applications (Virtual key) on the internet I tried them all but I could install none of them (certificate error).
- Text input is nice but sometimes when you want to input lowercase only it is only possible by typing a random letter which is ALWAYS uppercase type then the first letter of the lowercase word and then backspacing away the uppercase letter and then typing the rest of the word. When you choose the first letter in lowercase, all SUBSEQUENT LETTERS WILL BE IN UPPERCASE.
- Another text input flaw is when one needs to input a WLAN key or filling in an address for Nokia Maps, a virtual numeric keypad appears instead of a qwerty. For more confusion they call this 'alphanumeric keyboard' which is not the case. One can select the mini qwerty in these cases but not the fullscreen qwerty for some weird reason.
- Sometimes the default ringtone appears when the phone is ringing despite I have chosen another ringtone. The same applies to the alarm clock tone.
- The GPS is as poor as the N810 one: I tested it a few times and all times I came no further than 'Waiting for GPS...' while with the Qstarz P1000 Bluetooth GPS I got a fix within a few minutes in combination with the N810 or 5800, even indoors, so I consider the builtin GPS as a useless gimmick.

Conclusion: Firmware has to be finished yet and when a virtual keypad aaplication is there, one can get around most problems, because other browsers (Opera 8.65, Ozone) are then able to input text. Even TomTom 6.01 might work, because that applications is crippled by the impossibility of keyboard input.

So I use my N810 as a pocket browser as this one really works and the 5800 is degraded to a calling and SMSing tool and USB modem for the N810 until hopefully better soft/firmware appears......


What BOTH have:
- Touchscreen
- Possible for guided navigation (paid, about $100 extra) and free mapper and other GPS related applications and both can use Bluetooth GPS
- Use as VoIP client (N810:Skype, Both:Fring, etc.)
- Use as media player
- Use as web browser although the 5800's browser is somewhat limited
- Use with instant messaging and mailing

Both devices together cost less or at most the same as a single N97 but have lots more functionality. The price is for both together about the same, about EUR 320 in Europe (which might equal $250-$300 in the US).

I agree the N810's browser is much much better, but it's also a physically enormous device which was extremely expensive when it launched.

The 5800 has launched for about 250-300 euros plus taxes (depending on where you buy it) which is close to half the price that the N810 launched for. You don't mention price in the pros and cons, yet the price is precisely what makes the 5800 so significant.

The 5800's music playback quality is also a lot better than the N810s, like I said in the other thread GSM Arena quoted it as having one of the highest scores they'd ever seen in sound quality tests. That's why it's called XpressMusic, it's aimed at people who want to listen to music.

Hopefully the upcoming Maemo device will combine the phone features and small size of the 5800 with the high quality computing platform of Maemo. The new Maemo device probably won't be cheap, but at least it should be giving us the best of both worlds in hardware terms.


It sounds like you don't have the 5800's GPS set up correctly. The N810's GPS is much much much worse than the 5800's.

GPS on the 5800 actually works very well for me, and it's worked well for everyone on the All About Symbian staff in various parts of the world.

If you have the A-GPS working (i.e. with the correct positioning server entered into the settings section), the phone's clock synchronised to your phone network clock, and you have a SIM card in the slot, the 5800 should give a rough position estimate instantly (through phone mast positioning) and a satellite lock within about 30 seconds. It works for me within 30 seconds even when I'm indoors, as long as there are windows in the room.

The N810 GPS usually never locks for me even when I'm outdoors, and if it does lock it takes many minutes. I have never had any use from the N810's GPS, whereas I use my 5800's GPS all the time (and I know it works because I geotag my photos and they are virtually all correctly geotagged).

I've got the N800, N810, and 5800XM... I don't agree that the tablets are better.

Without getting into too much, the polish of S60 leads me to having a better over UX than the tablets. Having said that, the 5800XM isn't in my pocket because its just not stable enough and after a reset, I've gone back to my N95-3 because it rocks

I've got my N800 playing office tool and it works fine there. When pushing it - as I do S60 devices - it falls down. Yes, Tear has made it better. But it still feels more hobbyist than workhorse *for me.*

The N810 I am running Mer on. Because that's not a complete OS yet, its not good to run opinions on it. That being said, the hardware is nice - except for the keyboard. I hope that both the next tablets and the N97 are better.

I will say that the N97 will be my converged device though. Unless the next IT blows me out of the box, there's nothing that beats an integrated user experience. Capability means nothing when you feel disconnected from the data that you are trying to use.

Skatebiker, you also totally missed out the 5800's Carl Zeiss lens 3.2 megapixel autofocus camera and VGA 30fps camcorder. It's not as good as Nseries phone cameras, but it is massively better than anything on Maemo right now. (And the 5800 actually has two cameras, the main one on the back and the videophone camera on the front)

I've filled a photo album with pictures from the 5800, but I don't think I'd even want to print out any of the photos I've taken on the tablets.

The N810 and N800 cameras are absolutely pathetic compared to the 5800 and you can't even use them for photos by default.

But this is yet another gap that the next Maemo device should close which is why I have very high hopes for it.


In what universe is a lack of commercial applications a PRO?


First of all, there is already an S60 webserver app which Nokia has done as an open source project. I don't know if it's on S60v5 but it shows that Maemo doesn't have a monopoly on this kind of thing in Nokia.

But secondly and more importantly... is that REALLY worth a whole bullet point of its own in a comparison with a mass market device?

What percent of phone users would ever under any circumstances want to set up a webserver on their phone? Even people who spend their life working with servers are unlikely to want to do that.

Same with 5800 camera, just same matchhead sensor with even more megapixels (3.2) crammed on it. Cannot zoom in while all modern cameras (SLR or compact) can zoom at least 3 times. When I want to take photos I use a camera not a phone(or N810). Enough pocket sized decent cams, e.g. the Canon IXUS.

And about the GPS:

I just set it up like 'use internal GPS' and 'disable BT GPS'.
I want to use a GPS *without* GSM network aid as this is useless when you are in areas without coverage. Presumably the 5800 GPS requires A-GPS before fixing with satellites ? The BT GPS does not need this it fixes within minutes and many times within 30 seconds without GSM coverage. BTW I agree that the N810 GPS is poor as well and I never use it.

I'm probably one of the bigger/louder proponents of a mobile web server that I know, and I too will admit that the percentage of those who'd want this is smaller than small.

However, Nokia did make the MWS (for S60) available via Download! in India at the request of a lot of developers. Also, it tends to get a lot more attention in places where PC-server infrastructure is a bit more censored for personal use than in places here (speaking of US and some of Western EU).

I like showing my server admin and dba admin friends the mobile web server. They think its impossible until they see it running (lag time notwithstanding over 3G). And they will admit that while cool, they cannot see the need for such an application - of course, that's where new ideas and applications come from, so you cannot blame them for not understanding what they don't see (yet).

There will come a time when people will want their own servers (mobile and otherwise) to be their own web islands. Then people will get it. Again though, its not a major point, and considering the polish and ease of use of the MWS on S60, its definitely a knock on Maemo that its not done better.