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richwhite is offline richwhite
2011-07-06 , 16:13
Posts: 908 | Thanked: 501 times | Joined on Sep 2010 @ West Sussex, England
#31
Originally Posted by volt View Post
And while hurting it, the success cannot possibly be so huge that it forces a whole new strategy.
C'mon, pull the other one. You're telling me that one single device with little direct marketing woud have no strategy effect if it sold 6 million units? There's a big difference 'cannot' and 'will not' i.e. if it were to shift serious numbers Nokia could and should make it at least part of the strategy; that Elop refuses to entertain the idea is something else entirely.
 
petrelli is offline petrelli
2011-07-06 , 16:18
Posts: 82 | Thanked: 10 times | Joined on Feb 2010
#32
It is obvious that they needed the N9 last year, it has arrived too late, and the big picture is in two years, Nokia being the "Windows phone", competing to Apple and Android (Android, not HTC and others).

This is the big picture, and the promise that they won't be simply hardware manufacturers, but they will "transform" windows.

The big picture is that they couldn't wait forever to Meego, Nokia cannot dissapear, and when facing its potential crack, the only option was to go to Windows. Now the N9 is so good? Too late, what if for some reason the N9 wasn't ready now? What if the N9 is so usable as the N900?? Because, the N900 is a great mobile, but for geeks, not for standard users.

Perhaps the N9 is also "difficult" for normal users, and Nokia needs something really standard (we will see)

If I was in their position, I think I would have done the same. My only concern is that, if the N9 is a hit, why don't take profit of it? Windows and Maemo can coexist, the same that HTC works with Android and Windows.

If the common sense is to be applied, We will see a good future for Maemo, perhaps not Meego to keep Windows happy (I would bet Windows has put a LOT of money). The days keep going, and I am more and more sure that I will buy the N9, and pray for the friendship between the common sense and Elop.
 
Rauha is offline Rauha
2011-07-06 , 16:24
Posts: 1,400 | Thanked: 3,751 times | Joined on Sep 2009 @ Arctic cold of northern .fi
#33
Originally Posted by richwhite View Post
C'mon, pull the other one. You're telling me that one single device with little direct marketing woud have no strategy effect if it sold 6 million units? There's a big difference 'cannot' and 'will not' i.e. if it were to shift serious numbers Nokia could and should make it at least part of the strategy; that Elop refuses to entertain the idea is something else entirely.
He might not even have the option. The Microsoft deal included at least money and patent cross licensing. He's dumb enough to have signed deal that rules out possibility of strategy change for some amount of time.

Not that it really matters. In few years time the mobile world will be as established as desktop computers are today. No chance of breaking into it. Generic Microsoft manufacturer with razor thin profit margins. Future written off. I'm in a cheerful mode today.
 

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volt is offline volt
2011-07-06 , 16:33
Posts: 1,309 | Thanked: 1,187 times | Joined on Nov 2008
#34
Originally Posted by richwhite View Post
C'mon, pull the other one. You're telling me that one single device with little direct marketing woud have no strategy effect if it sold 6 million units? There's a big difference 'cannot' and 'will not' i.e. if it were to shift serious numbers Nokia could and should make it at least part of the strategy; that Elop refuses to entertain the idea is something else entirely.
Random numbers: In quarter 3 2010, Nokia sold 117.4 million units.
Maybe it'd influence the main company strategy if the N9 sold 6 million units in 6 months and they could follow it up with a N9+ selling equally much in the next 6 months.

Before that, they'd have to MAKE 6 million units, which they can't do without changing the manufacturing strategy already.
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Last edited by volt; 2011-07-06 at 16:36.
 
mikecomputing is offline mikecomputing
2011-07-06 , 16:58
Posts: 3,464 | Thanked: 5,107 times | Joined on Feb 2010 @ Gothenburg in Sweden
#35
Originally Posted by terro View Post
Quim Gil gave answer to this question (http://flors.wordpress.com/):

- If the Nokia N9 is successful will you ship more high-end smartphones powered either by MeeGo 1.2 Harmattan or a fully compliant MeeGo?

Since #feb11 Nokia has a clear software strategy where high-end smartphones are covered by the collaboration with Microsoft on Windows Phone, therefore the consequent answer is the one already given by Stephen Elop: No.

....but there are other sources inside Nokia who still says meego will be supported so it seems they also disaggree with the ****ing directorsboard.

Now lets kick that Elop ashole and his Microsoft.friends out from Nokia board.

and also to the guys whol actually gave Elop dissinformation about Meego/symbian progress inside the company. My guess is those guys just wanted to save theyr own skin
Last edited by mikecomputing; 2011-07-06 at 17:01.
 
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misterc is offline misterc
2011-07-06 , 17:01
Posts: 1,625 | Thanked: 998 times | Joined on Aug 2010
#36
Originally Posted by Rauha View Post
He might not even have the option. The Microsoft deal included at least money and patent cross licensing. He's dumb enough to have signed deal that rules out possibility of strategy change for some amount of time.

Not that it really matters. In few years time the mobile world will be as established as desktop computers are today. No chance of breaking into it. Generic Microsoft manufacturer with razor thin profit margins. Future written off. I'm in a cheerful mode today.
LG signed a similar agreement tow years ago in Barcelona
theoretically they should still have up to 50 (fifty) m$ devices in 2012
they have decided to join MeeGo a few months ago

following up on an agreement, as questionable as it may seem, is another thing then running a company into its ruin (e.g. 50% of stock value lost in less then a year....)
 
NokTokDaddy is offline NokTokDaddy
2011-07-06 , 17:04
Posts: 248 | Thanked: 240 times | Joined on Mar 2010 @ Wiltshire, UK
#37
Originally Posted by bandora View Post
What I don't understand is that the N9 is a great phone for consumers and he doesn't want it to catch on and become popular!

...MeeGo is appealing to devs and power users and also those "regular" consumers! But somehow they (Nokia/Board Members/Elop) don't want that continue!
To be truly successful, Nokia would have to invest time and money to build a lone ecosystem for the N9 because, when nit comes to current smartphone trends, 'Apps is Where it's At'.

You, me, and your Girlfriend may well be happy with the device out-of-the-box, but the masses - the millions who vastly outweigh the few who gravitate to this site, want apps and services.

Nokia has tried to develop apps & services before, but even they decided that after two years they not only got the name wrong, they got the whole damn game wrong.

Ovi mail is fairly successful in some markets, and the Ovi Store is doing some good business now and even manages to offer updates - at last, but there are many parts of the Ovi package that were so badly implemented they were either dropped or allowed to crunch on regardless.

Ovi Maps is the single success story, the one shining jewel in Nokia's crown and THE service to (positively) distinguish Nokia devices from a services perspective.

Rather than spend more money and time (rapidly-dwindling resources for Nokia) Elop decided Nokia should join forces with other manufacturers to build a 'third ecosystem' to more effectively compete with Android and iOS.

iOS and to a lesser degree Android, offer quality, security and choice that Nokia could not hope to offer within time.

What is most interesting about the N9 is that many are saying they could live with the device as sold as it has so much functionality built in.

This may well be true, but represents too big a gamble at this time.

I don't think Elop wants N9 to be unsuccessful, but I do understand how important it is for Nokia's Windows Phone devices to gain traction. N9 has served well as a 'disruptive' device; it has grabbed much attention for Nokia and got people talking about them once again.

Even the staunchest of critics have trouble writing off the Nokia that can produce the N9, but it is essential Nokia are seen to stay on message, and that message is Windows Phone.

That's why the Sea Ray prototype was leaked so soon after the N9, and why Elop is so keen to simultaneously talk down the obviously-brilliant N9 whilst hinting that much that it represents will be deployed in other models.

Apart from us few Maemo/Meego fans, most 'normal' people who have been swept up on the N9 wave will not remember Meego, open source or Linux.

They will be like your lovely girlfriend and remember the physical attributes of the device.

EDIT:

When they see the Sea Ray hit the shops they'll remember all the positive spin and start considering Windows Phone devices en masse.

And why not?
 

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NokTokDaddy is offline NokTokDaddy
2011-07-06 , 17:11
Posts: 248 | Thanked: 240 times | Joined on Mar 2010 @ Wiltshire, UK
#38
Originally Posted by mikecomputing View Post
....but there are other sources inside Nokia who still says meego will be supported so it seems they also disaggree with the ****ing directorsboard.

Now lets kick that Elop ashole and his Microsoft.friends out from Nokia board.

and also to the guys whol actually gave Elop dissinformation about Meego/symbian progress inside the company. My guess is those guys just wanted to save theyr own skin
Elop may yet prove to be the saviour of Meego/Harmattan;

As I've posted elsewhere, N9 is primarily to show Nokia can still build innovative devices and are still relevant on the run-up to their WP launch, but if the demand is there it wouldn't surprise me to see Elop eat his own words and use Meego/Harmattan for future 'disruptive devices'
 
mikecomputing is offline mikecomputing
2011-07-06 , 17:16
Posts: 3,464 | Thanked: 5,107 times | Joined on Feb 2010 @ Gothenburg in Sweden
#39
Originally Posted by petrelli View Post
It is obvious that they needed the N9 last year, it has arrived too late, and the big picture is in two years, Nokia being the "Windows phone", competing to Apple and Android (Android, not HTC and others).

This is the big picture, and the promise that they won't be simply hardware manufacturers, but they will "transform" windows.

The big picture is that they couldn't wait forever to Meego, Nokia cannot dissapear, and when facing its potential crack, the only option was to go to Windows. Now the N9 is so good? Too late, what if for some reason the N9 wasn't ready now? What if the N9 is so usable as the N900?? Because, the N900 is a great mobile, but for geeks, not for standard users.

Perhaps the N9 is also "difficult" for normal users, and Nokia needs something really standard (we will see)

If I was in their position, I think I would have done the same. My only concern is that, if the N9 is a hit, why don't take profit of it? Windows and Maemo can coexist, the same that HTC works with Android and Windows.

If the common sense is to be applied, We will see a good future for Maemo, perhaps not Meego to keep Windows happy (I would bet Windows has put a LOT of money). The days keep going, and I am more and more sure that I will buy the N9, and pray for the friendship between the common sense and Elop.
to late!? thats just plain ********!! if the marketing is doing the right thing it NOT to late!!!
 
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danramos is offline danramos
2011-07-06 , 17:19
Posts: 4,672 | Thanked: 5,455 times | Joined on Jul 2008 @ Springfield, MA, USA
#40
Originally Posted by NokTokDaddy View Post
Well, that's your opinion, and I can respect that without having to agree with it.

Nokia needed radical and rapid change; many of us criticised them for failing to do this, that, or the other. We saw them fail with many devices and services following the N95's huge success and felt helpless as iOS and Android took over the world.

And then this guy Elop comes along who starts to shake things up. He has a radical plan, and the energy to implement it at top speed. It is just too early to proclaim him either a success or a failure yet - we'll need to get to at least the end of 2012 (EDIT) to see if Elop's Nokia have been able to make any headway.

Until then, change is painful - as in all things in life. Market share will fall further, which runs the risk of more profit warnings and reduced creditworthiness - these are all part of the change necessary to turn a company around; no pain = no gain.

Did we really expect someone to just come in as CEO and wave a magic wand over Symbian and Maemo/Meego and achieve what Nokia have failed to implement over the last few years?

Did we really expect anyone could get all this right second-time round when Nokia had failed first time?

What Elop is doing is a huge gamble; he's trying to leap-frog over the opposition whose current OS's are approaching mid-life by adopting a nascent OS that is still largely unformed.

I couldn't use WP7 as my everyday device, nor could many, I suspect. But Mango will bring huge strides in usability and features. Nokia's experience will help shape WP beyond Mango and the potential of that is way too big to contemplate here.

But to get there we need to give Elop's Nokia time. nevermind the N9, the Sea Ray prototype shows how far Elop's Nokia have come in the very short time he has had within the company.

to get a new device ready for market usually takes a manufacturer over two years, and Elop's Nokia will have undercut that considerably if they launch in early 2012. If they launch in Oct/Nov they'll become the stuff of legend.

You are right in one sense: Elop will have to destroy the old for the new to flourish. The message has to be clear: Windows Phone is Nokia's future. If that means being seen to kill off Symbian and Meego, then that is a risk worth taking.

But we should also remember that nothing is truly 'killed off'; Meego still exists and despite Elop's words will remain an option for Nokia's future.

I hope so, because from what I've seen so far, and my time with the N900 I bloody love it
Moody's Cuts Nokia Credit Rating


http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2011/06/...aked-in-march/


http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2011/06/...aked-in-march/

What he's killing is Nokia's brand. This is VERY hard to regain.

Originally Posted by gruik View Post
It's the first time I see a CEO treated like this...
WOW! Folks, I think we discovered our first person "born yesterday"! Additionally, let's not forget that he's entirely deserving of this treatment--he's hardly the first to be treated this way and hardly the first to deserve it.
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