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gerbick
2011-07-22 , 15:09
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#181
Originally Posted by abill_uk View Post
Then the answer is clear ... get Maemo released to this community then it can really come into the limelight and show the world what can be done with Maemo.
It's not that easy. My personal take (likely wrong) is first, the community needs infrastructure in place with either the understanding that Maemo still belongs to Nokia, the closed bits need workarounds, and the supporting bits from repositories, garage, need to have their level(s) of priority sorted and then the OS handed over to a willing and active committee and developers.

The disputes range from where should this happen, what should continue forward - I see no reason for Brain Storm for instance - and so forth.

Were it so easy as you had described, this thread would be 1 page long.
 

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abill_uk is offline abill_uk
2011-07-22 , 15:14
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#182
Originally Posted by gerbick View Post
It's not that easy. My personal take (likely wrong) is first, the community needs infrastructure in place with either the understanding that Maemo still belongs to Nokia, the closed bits need workarounds, and the supporting bits from repositories, garage, need to have their level(s) of priority sorted and then the OS handed over to a willing and active committee and developers.

The disputes range from where should this happen, what should continue forward - I see no reason for Brain Storm for instance - and so forth.

Were it so easy as you had described, this thread would be 1 page long.
This is also the bit i fail to understand... why did Nokia give this to stskeeps and neither he nor Nokia will as yet give to this community in any way or form?.
 
Rob1n is offline Rob1n
2011-07-22 , 15:46
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#183
Originally Posted by abill_uk View Post
This is also the bit i fail to understand... why did Nokia give this to stskeeps and neither he nor Nokia will as yet give to this community in any way or form?.
Where did you hear that Nokia gave access to the entire Maemo source code to stskeeps? Large chunks of Maemo are open and available (or superceded by the updated Meego versions), but other parts remain closed (whether due to 3rd party restrictions, or Nokia not wanting to spend the time/money required to clean up & vet code) and require working around. I've not heard of any of these being made accessible to anyone outside Nokia though (and if they were, they'd almost certainly only be made so under stringent NDA conditions).
 
abill_uk is offline abill_uk
2011-07-22 , 15:59
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#184
Originally Posted by Rob1n View Post
Where did you hear that Nokia gave access to the entire Maemo source code to stskeeps? Large chunks of Maemo are open and available (or superceded by the updated Meego versions), but other parts remain closed (whether due to 3rd party restrictions, or Nokia not wanting to spend the time/money required to clean up & vet code) and require working around. I've not heard of any of these being made accessible to anyone outside Nokia though (and if they were, they'd almost certainly only be made so under stringent NDA conditions).
He told me so himself on this forum, go look on the poll thread i did as i think it was on there.
 
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ysss is offline ysss
2011-07-22 , 16:30
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#185
I'm happy to see abill learning the past few pages. It would've been better if you came in with less abrasive tones and entitlement issues and just ask nicely for questions about maemo's history.

1. Why did the community gather around NIT and maemo, -knowing- it's not perfect and fully open?
- Was there any better alternatives back then?
- Were you in a position to bargain back then?
- It was the leading FOSS mobile development platform with very high market potential, coming from the #1 mobile device producer brand.
- Did you know MeeGo was coming back then? Android would be as big as it is now, etc?

Hindsight is 20/20.

2. Why doesn't Nokia release the sourcecode to the community?
- Maybe it's due to licensing issues from the components used inside.
- Maybe it's due to legal issues, being that maemo is not only a project name but a commercial brandname associated exclusively to Nokia devices.
- Maybe they don't want chinese KIRFs to show up and make use of their investments and make up news headlines.
- Did you EVER ask anyone from Nokia about this or did you just whine whine whine against the community about this, which essentially and obviously wanting the same thing (but seems to understand the subtleties and sophistication of the matter more than you have).

3. Did Nokia gave access to the entire Maemo source code to stskeeps?
- Here is your giant whine thread: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=73419 and it's a pretty painful memory seeing as it was a big reason that stskeeps left. He tried to communicate with you but you've managed to resist understanding somehow.

I don't know how old you are, but please think twice, thrice before posting undigested questions and comments in public forums. Especially when you're about to make an assumption that everyone in this community are idiots by doing so.

Heck, you may be the biggest one.

ps: no, those are not official answers from anywhere. those are just reasonable line of thoughts to follow, imo.
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gerbick
2011-07-22 , 18:30
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#186
Originally Posted by abill_uk View Post
This is also the bit i fail to understand... why did Nokia give this to stskeeps and neither he nor Nokia will as yet give to this community in any way or form?.
Don't forget that STSkeeps had done work for Nokia.

Edit: STSKeeps hit me up via Twitter to correct me. He had been doing work for Nokia with the hw adaptation people.
Last edited by gerbick; 2011-07-22 at 20:30. Reason: stskeeps corrected me himself... cool.
 

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misterc is offline misterc
2011-07-22 , 20:41
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#187
Originally Posted by gerbick View Post
How could a device that was limited via community accepted microeconomics be considered a failure?
the devices limited sales number were not failures, but more or less intended outcome.
just like the N9 is only going to be available in limited quantities;
thus, if ppl are getting all excited about it, there won't be enough for everybody, so they have to limit the number of markets where the device will be sold.
eh?
that's macro-microeconomics
¦-))))

the failure i was alluding to in this case is the fact that Maemo's development always got hampered by those closed components, indeed but that the community's structure did not allow for release of closed components.
see your discussion about what if anything stskeeps got and under what terms if any
thus the structure respectively the lack thereof of the Maemo community is the failure. like we discussed w/ abill, this probably wasn't malevolence of NOKIA but merely lack of insight into SW vs. HW development (in OSS e-c-o-s-y-s-t-e-m )

I'd be more willing to state that the intended handoff of the assets from Nokia to the community and the communication of how it was going to happen has been the failure.
not a failure, not possible under profitable terms for NOKIA, thus Maemo became a collateral

The devices are basically dead. Nokia sold them, no longer supports them, no longer builds them (all but the N9 that is). It's now a fight over the software, OS, the closed bits (losing battle there) and how this community would be able to update, continue support that's in question now.

And it's not looking too well.
none of the Maemo devices was ever intended to be a commercial success, alas.
not even the N9 (see 1st §)

EDIT: however, that doesn't mean there won't be any more MeeGo devices from NOKIA
huh?
remember, Elop doesn't know the difference between Maemo and MeeGo; thus even though they told him / his notes said "there won't be anymore Maemo devices..." he said "the N9 is the last MeeGo device"
aaaa, whatever... am i the boss here?!?
Last edited by misterc; 2011-07-22 at 20:52. Reason: last Maemo vs no more MeeGo device
 
abill_uk is offline abill_uk
2011-07-22 , 23:38
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#188
The more i read on here the more it stands out as a complete and utter shambles, it exasperates me how and why Maemo.org was started with no access to the Maemo source code.

Probably the most usefull thread ever started on this forum was my poll to get Maemo released to this community and many people say it was a huge rant and whine yet look at what is happening before your very eyes right now on this community ? it is grinding to a halt, dev's have left and now Maemo is a fraction away from being totally forgotton.

But i know nothing i am a meager morcel that simply said something is very wrong a long time back.
 
gerbick
2011-07-23 , 00:09
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#189
Originally Posted by abill_uk View Post
The more i read on here the more it stands out as a complete and utter shambles, it exasperates me how and why Maemo.org was started with no access to the Maemo source code.
Way to over-dramatize things a bit. Maemo.org was started to give Maemo device owners access to news, code, friendly talk and a continuance of the spirit that was prevalent at ITT.

The dealings around the source code was tacked on later. If it was ever brought up during the transition from ITT to TMO, I would be surprised.
 

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abill_uk is offline abill_uk
2011-07-23 , 00:48
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#190
Originally Posted by gerbick View Post
Way to over-dramatize things a bit. Maemo.org was started to give Maemo device owners access to news, code, friendly talk and a continuance of the spirit that was prevalent at ITT.

The dealings around the source code was tacked on later. If it was ever brought up during the transition from ITT to TMO, I would be surprised.
Well it should have been brought up because without it no real advancement could happen on Maemo as it is now being proved on this forum.

Maemo could take on a new lease of life IF the source was readily available dont you think?.

MeeGo will never work efficiently on the N900 because of lack of ram and cpu speed.

What do we do with all the 900's now?, put them in a draw to gather dust lol or do we do something constructive with them?.

"Maemo.org was started to give Maemo device owners access to news, code, friendly talk"

Dont you mean code that crashes the N900 lol and as for friendly talk, do you really mean that lol.
Last edited by abill_uk; 2011-07-23 at 00:50.
 
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