Community Council Thread - Questions, Solutions and Grievances - Page 16 - maemo.org

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don.edri	2012-06-27 , 05:26
Posts: 138 \| Thanked: 152 times \| Joined on Jun 2012 @ Switzerland/Zurich	#151

Thanks for appreciation, and I'm gonna quote myself since, I guess, the idea got lost under bashing and brawling. Now, this could use some comments:

Originally Posted by don.edri

So, as there are voices some other deserving developers were omitted in the prizes - how about the community makes up for this? I mean, how much is a N9 nowadays? If the community thinks that those developers are so deserving (and requiring for their further work!) we could easily donate a few bucks each and fix the issue. Yeah, those are not N950, but one can perfectly code and develop with them, right?
Would that please everybody?

Last edited by don.edri; 2012-06-27 at 05:27. Reason: spelling

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	woody14619	2012-06-27 , 17:56
	Posts: 1,455 \| Thanked: 3,309 times \| Joined on Dec 2009 @ Rochester, NY	#152

Originally Posted by gerbick

I can appreciate your honesty. 3 years ago and now.

And I yours, so let's keep this civil and see if there's something we can come up with that will fix this.

Originally Posted by gerbick

But you've stated that you've asked a question over and over and it's not been answered. Seems like I have not seen it; so point it out and I will gladly give you the best answer I can conjure.

I've asked it a little differently each time, to try to get it answered, but I've been pretty consistent in my ask:

Originally Posted by woody14619

What more would you have liked us to have done to make this process more transparent?

Originally Posted by woody14619

So tell me again, what is Council to do? [...] What, exactly, do you want to see happen?

Originally Posted by woody14619

Again, I ask: What should I have done?

Originally Posted by woody14619

Again, I ask: What would you have me do?

Originally Posted by woody14619

Please tell me, what can I (or any Council member) do about it?

In fact, one you replied to it directly once, in a less than optimal way:

Originally Posted by gerbick

As a council, this community looks to you for resolution. Not the other way around.

So far don.edri has had a few ideas, as has chemist. Both are in the same vein though: to set up a policy to prevent this in the future . Others, like you, seem to want to see something done now, which is why I ask the question:

What would you like to see done?

I can tell you, removing awards from the list of produced winners is very likely not an option. Even if it's petitioned for, I doubt it would happen without a large swell of support. You'd also have to get the ex-winners that aren't in the "redefined" winners list to return the device, another unlikely scenario.

It occurred to me today on the drive in that for the most part (of the 25 devices) only about 3 are being debated. All this, for under $2K in prizes; less than it would take to run TMO, wiki, the repos and builders for a month or so.

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Arie	2012-06-27 , 18:06
Posts: 1,539 \| Thanked: 1,604 times \| Joined on Oct 2011 @ With my N9	#153

Originally Posted by woody14619

For under $2K in prizes; less than it would take to run TMO, wiki, the repos and builders for a month or so.

Quoted because it's the most useful piece of information we have been given.

Thank you Woody for making this clear and stating this for us to know.

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Temporary Inception Fix

Times Banned from TMO: 4

	woody14619	2012-06-27 , 20:17
	Posts: 1,455 \| Thanked: 3,309 times \| Joined on Dec 2009 @ Rochester, NY	#154

Originally Posted by Arie

Quoted because it's the most useful piece of information we have been given.

Thank you Woody for making this clear and stating this for us to know.

To be clear, this is an estimation of what I think it would cost, based on what I know. I do not know how much Nokia is paying for services, or what said services will cost in the final analysis.

I suspect it will not be a huge amount though, especially if we are paying for just services and not people to maintain them (which Nokia currently does). I suspect the maintainers will be volunteers, not dissimilar to how moderation is handled here.

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ajalkane	2012-06-27 , 20:53
Posts: 1,313 \| Thanked: 2,978 times \| Joined on Jun 2011 @ Finland	#155

So... can we, as a community, move on and do as don.edri proposed? Set-up a fund for e-eyes and itsnotabigtruck to get their well deserved devices? I've already myself donated to itsnotabigtruck. Maybe many others have too.

But what about a collection to get both of them a device if that's what many of the community feel strongly about? I for myself wouldn't feel bad at all donating again to such a collection to get them a device.

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	Dave999	2012-06-27 , 20:59
	Posts: 7,075 \| Thanked: 9,073 times \| Joined on Oct 2009 @ Moon! It's not the East or the West side... it's the Dark Side	#156

So they have no devices?

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Do something for the climate today! Anything!

I don't trust poeple without a Nokia n900...

ajalkane	2012-06-27 , 21:01
Posts: 1,313 \| Thanked: 2,978 times \| Joined on Jun 2011 @ Finland	#157

Originally Posted by Dave999

So they have no devices?

Of course they have. But doing development on a device you're supposed to use as reliable communication tool as your main day-to-day device is not very nice. Double so for the stuff itsnotabigtruck and e-eyes is doing.

EDIT: I think with the above I assumed the reader would have some understanding on developing on these devices. That's unfair assumption. So I'll try clarifying here: when developing on the device you're basically messing up with the intended use of "normal" usage of the device. Trying things that might work or might not. Even with pretty "playing by the rules" development you will feel safer having a dedicated development device to test the stuff on, and another device that you use as your day-to-day phone that just works. But with the stuff itsnotabigtruck and e-eyes are doing, the dangers to making your phone unusable are much bigger than a normal applicatiion development - you really do want a dedicated testing device for that.

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Last edited by ajalkane; 2012-06-27 at 21:10.

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	Dave999	2012-06-27 , 21:17
	Posts: 7,075 \| Thanked: 9,073 times \| Joined on Oct 2009 @ Moon! It's not the East or the West side... it's the Dark Side	#158

Originally Posted by ajalkane

Of course they have. But doing development on a device you're supposed to use as reliable communication tool as your main day-to-day device is not very nice. Double so for the stuff itsnotabigtruck and e-eyes is doing.

That's the tricky part with hacking. You lock down devices and noone official is really gonna give you a device and you can't win it either since nokia won't allowit/needing in store.

I'm in for donating even if I don't planning to use none of their hacking. Directly. Would be fun with a donating bar and then maybe even vote would gets the devices?

Why do they deserve devices while others don't?
Again, that is the tricky question.

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Do something for the climate today! Anything!

I don't trust poeple without a Nokia n900...

	misterc	2012-06-27 , 21:27
	Posts: 1,625 \| Thanked: 998 times \| Joined on Aug 2010	#159

Originally Posted by Estel

Honestly, this thread is beyond ridiculous. [...]

/Estel

as a member of the council, could you please abstain from making judgmental post that contain no useful information?
it doesn't help anyone and it damages the council's image.
former is true for everyone, later not.

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gerbick	2012-06-27 , 21:28
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Originally Posted by woody14619

And I yours, so let's keep this civil and see if there's something we can come up with that will fix this.

That was my original path. We agree, let's stick to that path.

I've asked it a little differently each time, to try to get it answered, but I've been pretty consistent in my ask...

What would you like to see done?

I think all I wanted was a bit more transparency in how things went down. SD69 and you have been the epitome of that thus far.

So what would I like to see done? That in the future - if there is one and so far there aren't - that if there is a conflict of interest, request past Council members to step-in and be a objective voice in those concerns. All conflicts of interest should be made public if they're known. In most cases they might not be known, we're depending on your honesty.

To have one person know that he was going to wait until the last second to request a device and still have a say in the proceedings is a conflict of interest. The proper thing would be to have removed himself from the decision making process since it looks downright shady despite how he doth protest.

Now, forward thinking, the council makes decisions on our (Community) regard all the time. I think that process has been pretty transparent and via the official Community Council threads, that communication has been consistent and if we're interested, there's quite a few ways to check those decisions and discussions.

What do we do about this current situation? It's over, it's done. Do not try to re-allocate the items, even if this is the last time Nokia gives anybody any devices, it's done. We know that Estel will not give his device up - probably will post ABBA lyrics in his next post <shudder>

Quim is handling the Coding Contest and it's going very well. This one, didn't go so well. Water under the bridge; in the future if any of the council wishes to participate, they should not be on the board of who makes a decision in that process.

That's my take. The rest, continue as you have (past tense).