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specc is offline specc
2012-12-09 , 10:21
Posts: 322 | Thanked: 218 times | Joined on Feb 2012
#2391
Originally Posted by qwazix View Post
Marketing attracts users. I was reading a survey yesterday from 2010. Symbian had 36% market share though only 12% pf customers new what symbian was. Do you think those people were going to ask for symbian again witj all the hype with android?

Nokia failed to establish popular identification of their phones as smartphones and that was their biggest problem. Symbian and maemo were way ahead of android in 2009-10. What good did that make? It was all about marketing.
The thing is that smartphones used to be a geek ting, or at least something you had a special interest in to actively go out and get. Part two of that "thing" is that Symbian in it's S60 incarnation worked just as a dumbphone, but with much added functionality of course, apps multitasking etc etc. Hence the ordinary ignorant user could end up with a Symbian phone or a S40 phone, it was more a matter of how much money he put into the phone. But only the ones with special interest knew how to use the functionality of Symbian.

Then came Apple and later Google. They redefined the very essence of what a smartphone was. Connectivity, multitasking, functionality - unimportant. Usability, touch screen, simplicity, app store - all important.

At that time Nokia was a bunch of headless chickens. Instead of revamping Symbian, they open sourced it and lost 2-3 years in the process while launching disasters such as the N97. Eventually the whole symbian saga ended in a crash.

Maemo was left out in the cold to a huge bunch of utter geeks with no sense of focus, discipline or management. The N900 is the result of that. If they had stayed on that track, producing geek devices for geeks, they would have a niche market now. A small market, but a viable one. But - they had to compete with the iPhone, the result is the N9. A device that is a big nothing. Way too crippled to be cool, way too poorly engineered (software vice) to compete with Android/iOS. Top score in HW design though.

IMO Jolly is doing it again. They are going for this big nothing. They are actively using a recipe that does not now or ever produce a good end result.
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shmerl is offline shmerl
2012-12-09 , 10:50
Posts: 1,298 | Thanked: 2,277 times | Joined on May 2011
#2392
You don't know what they are doing hardware wise yet. So too early to say that it's "nothing".
 
switch-hitter is offline switch-hitter
2012-12-09 , 12:51
Posts: 207 | Thanked: 552 times | Joined on Jul 2011
#2393
Originally Posted by specc View Post
The thing is that smartphones used to be a geek ting, or at least something you had a special interest in to actively go out and get. Part two of that "thing" is that Symbian in it's S60 incarnation worked just as a dumbphone, but with much added functionality of course, apps multitasking etc etc. Hence the ordinary ignorant user could end up with a Symbian phone or a S40 phone, it was more a matter of how much money he put into the phone. But only the ones with special interest knew how to use the functionality of Symbian.

Then came Apple and later Google. They redefined the very essence of what a smartphone was. Connectivity, multitasking, functionality - unimportant. Usability, touch screen, simplicity, app store - all important.

At that time Nokia was a bunch of headless chickens. Instead of revamping Symbian, they open sourced it and lost 2-3 years in the process while launching disasters such as the N97. Eventually the whole symbian saga ended in a crash.

Maemo was left out in the cold to a huge bunch of utter geeks with no sense of focus, discipline or management. The N900 is the result of that. If they had stayed on that track, producing geek devices for geeks, they would have a niche market now. A small market, but a viable one. But - they had to compete with the iPhone, the result is the N9. A device that is a big nothing. Way too crippled to be cool, way too poorly engineered (software vice) to compete with Android/iOS. Top score in HW design though.

IMO Jolly is doing it again. They are going for this big nothing. They are actively using a recipe that does not now or ever produce a good end result.
Is that your Christmas fairytale?

Now I guess you're just waiting for a handsome prince to kiss you so you can live happily ever after.
 
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benny1967 is offline benny1967
2012-12-09 , 13:34
Posts: 3,790 | Thanked: 5,718 times | Joined on Mar 2006 @ Vienna, Austria
#2394
Originally Posted by specc View Post
They redefined the very essence of what a smartphone was. Connectivity, multitasking, functionality - unimportant. Usability, touch screen, simplicity, app store - all important.
That's like saying Coca Cola re-defined the very essence of what a ship is. Safety, payload, the ability to stay afloat in the first place - unimportant. Taste, refreshment, American image - all important.
 
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Dave999 is offline Dave999
2012-12-09 , 15:18
Posts: 7,075 | Thanked: 9,073 times | Joined on Oct 2009 @ Moon! It's not the East or the West side... it's the Dark Side
#2395
To me it seems that Jolla isn't ready to release a smartphone. I think they should wait with the smartphone(or release and expensive devdevice) and instead release Sailfish SDK and make sure they are not that far off from galaxy S 4 and galaxy note 3 when they release their premium devices.
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I don't trust poeple without a Nokia n900...
 
Lumiaman
2012-12-09 , 15:45
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#2396
I will repeat myself over and over: the Jolla team is unlikely to deliver a finished product. They have to learn to stick with one UI and do it well. If these are the guys that jumped from Maemo to Harmattan to Jolla, they like creating unfinished products. That will not be tolerated by the vast majority of consumers.
 
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Dave999 is offline Dave999
2012-12-09 , 16:46
Posts: 7,075 | Thanked: 9,073 times | Joined on Oct 2009 @ Moon! It's not the East or the West side... it's the Dark Side
#2397
Originally Posted by Lumiaman View Post
I will repeat myself over and over: the Jolla team is unlikely to deliver a finished product. They have to learn to stick with one UI and do it well. If these are the guys that jumped from Maemo to Harmattan to Jolla, they like creating unfinished products. That will not be tolerated by the vast majority of consumers.
I think they can if they use iterations of Sailfish. Plus, a useless device for you might be excellent for another user. But they can for sure compete with you lumia 920.
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pycage is offline pycage
2012-12-09 , 17:05
Posts: 3,404 | Thanked: 4,474 times | Joined on Oct 2005 @ Germany
#2398
Originally Posted by Lumiaman View Post
If these are the guys that jumped from Maemo to Harmattan to Jolla, they like creating unfinished products. That will not be tolerated by the vast majority of consumers.
They may be the guys that jumped through all these platforms (well, some of them are), but they are not the guys who made them do all this aimless jumping. So in the end they may have a better chance to finish a product than they ever had within Nokia.
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switch-hitter is offline switch-hitter
2012-12-09 , 20:54
Posts: 207 | Thanked: 552 times | Joined on Jul 2011
#2399
Originally Posted by Lumiaman View Post
I will repeat myself over and over: the Jolla team is unlikely to deliver a finished product. They have to learn to stick with one UI and do it well. If these are the guys that jumped from Maemo to Harmattan to Jolla, they like creating unfinished products. That will not be tolerated by the vast majority of consumers.
Read this wiki about model-view-controller. QML simplifies designing the view (Firefox OS and Tizen will also have this adaptibility but using HTML5 instead of QML). Assuming Jolla have designed their UI in QML (surely they have, right?) then if they do come up with a paradigm the market can't stand it's only a matter of redesigning the view.

IMO it is the possibility of customisation QML offers combined with the Android application compatability that is going to make Sailfish OS very interesting to carriers and manufacturers.

I would imagine manufacturers like HTC who like to adapt Android to have their own distinct UI will find Sailfish appealing because it makes such adaptations easier. Often it is these manufacturer customisations that prevent/delay particular devices from getting updated versions of Android. Initially they'll need to reproduce the touch and feel of their UI using QML primitives, once they've done that they'll be good to go. From then on, as QML is just ECMAScript, adding their personalised UI to an updated Sailfish OS should be a fairly simple process.

Carriers may well have their own reasons for liking Sailfish OS too. It can take carrier branding and built in carrier owned services to a whole new level. Why should the carriers stand idly by and watch the manufacturers make all the money from the 'ecosystem' surrounding their core service? Don't be surprised if we see in the not-too-distant-future carrier owned 'ecosystems' and the only phones with subsidies will be the carrier branded devices that have the carrier's services integrated.

Mobile payments are going to be very big very soon. Are companies like China Mobile, Vodafone, Telefonica, etc... really going to stand on the sidelines and watch Google make all the money?

I can see the carriers appreciating Jolla as a company they can collaborate with to create their own 'ecosystem' of devices and integrated services.
 
Lumiaman
2012-12-10 , 00:27
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#2400
What you wrote makes a lot of sense, though, I prefer that there be a decentralization of ecosystems and find it scary that carriers will own everything from top to bottom. Nonetheless, your argument makes sense to a degree. I think that carriers will likely control all these transactions for a fee, so everyone is happy. That said, there are some uncharted waters ahead and your analysis may become a model somewhere in this universe.
 
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