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gerbick
2013-10-07 , 00:55
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#261
Originally Posted by qwazix View Post
They can't fix the annoyances of RT. The main problem is that it looks exactly the same as Win8 and people *will* be misled in store. Then go back to the store and ask the rep: "There is a problem with my new laptop (tablet)" I downloaded (Firefox|vlc|chrome|whatever) and it doesn't get installed"
That is indeed a valid concern and one that Microsoft has yet to address. Looking like the Surface 2/Surface 2 Pro will continue down that path of not differentiating the different chips and limitations of the OS's again.

Tell me what would you do if you were that rep, the next time a possibly clueless customer is courting the Yoga 11.
"Dear sir, this is not a real PC it cannot run your favorite software, you know that, yes?"
Still wondering why it doesn't sell?
Training can only do so much. But you're right... they've yet to address the clueless. Perhaps it will be another $900 million+ mistake.

They lost their chance to make that work. If they released RT with a home screen different enough and without a desktop it could have worked.
I keep telling folks that will listen...

Windows 8.1 RT = Metro start tiles - Desktop + unified mobile non x86 store (labeled as such)
Windows 8.1 Pro = Metro + Desktop + x86 store (labeled as such)
Windows 8.x Phone = Metro start tiles + unified mobile non x86 store (labeled as such)
Windows 2012 Server = Metro (optional, I personally HATE it on Server) + Desktop + Powershell + x86 store + MSDN

Drop non-Pro Windows OS, only Windows 8.1 Pro.
 

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jalyst is offline jalyst
2013-10-07 , 04:30
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#262
It's too early to say, it sounds like they've got some major changes planned for RT, I'll hold final judgment till then.
But yeah, so far Win 8 tablets are looking way more interesting to me...
 
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pichlo is offline pichlo
2013-10-07 , 08:28
Posts: 6,447 | Thanked: 20,981 times | Joined on Sep 2012 @ UK
#263
Originally Posted by mikecomputing View Post
Most people will continue use Windows even if they only use it for simple task like web surfing.
I've recently splashed out on a new laptop. After 6+ years of using Linux exclusively on my home machine, the idea of paying Microsoft Tax™ really stroked my hair the wrong way. So I spent a lot of time researching into buying a new, reasonably specced laptop without Windows preinstalled.

I hate to say that I failed miserably. Yes, there are options, but at least here in the UK the reality is such that a new laptop without Windows is at least 20% more expensive than the equivalent with Windows on. In my case it translates to saving about £150 by giving part of it to Microsoft. Much as I hate myself for that, I took those 150 pieces of silver and now I pay for it with my frustration with Windows 8's huge step back in terms of usability.

I understand the economics of it: OS-free or Linux-preinstlled laptops sell in much smaller quantities through small companies who cannot afford to push the prices down the way the behemoths like Dell do. But the point is that yes, people will continue using Windows. Not necessarily through conscious choice but through a perceived lack of other options.
 
zimon is offline zimon
2013-10-07 , 09:05
Posts: 1,341 | Thanked: 708 times | Joined on Feb 2010
#264
Originally Posted by qwazix View Post
This cannot be fixed unfortunately. Linux on ARM makes sense as you still have all the apps in repos, readily recompiled for you. It is impossible to recompile the world of windows, and an emulator is out of the question, not enough grunt.
"Normal" desktop Linuxes have poor touchscreen support and applications are not designed for a touch screen UX.
Therefore Android (Cyanogen/Replicant) could actually be a working solution and I was not fully joking when I said Nokia should just leak instructions (via Tor) how step-by-step Android can be installed to their tablet-device.

@mikecomputing: Just start making Qt-apps to Android while waiting some other Linux variant (, which you'd like more, and me too perhaps) is really alive. Android-devices are good, they just work, although they are not perfect.
Last edited by zimon; 2013-10-07 at 09:09.
 

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danramos is offline danramos
2013-10-07 , 11:52
Posts: 4,672 | Thanked: 5,455 times | Joined on Jul 2008 @ Springfield, MA, USA
#265
Originally Posted by pichlo View Post
I've recently splashed out on a new laptop. After 6+ years of using Linux exclusively on my home machine, the idea of paying Microsoft Tax™ really stroked my hair the wrong way. So I spent a lot of time researching into buying a new, reasonably specced laptop without Windows preinstalled.

I hate to say that I failed miserably. Yes, there are options, but at least here in the UK the reality is such that a new laptop without Windows is at least 20% more expensive than the equivalent with Windows on. In my case it translates to saving about £150 by giving part of it to Microsoft. Much as I hate myself for that, I took those 150 pieces of silver and now I pay for it with my frustration with Windows 8's huge step back in terms of usability.

I understand the economics of it: OS-free or Linux-preinstlled laptops sell in much smaller quantities through small companies who cannot afford to push the prices down the way the behemoths like Dell do. But the point is that yes, people will continue using Windows. Not necessarily through conscious choice but through a perceived lack of other options.
I understand and empathize with you. I did the same thing about a year ago but, truthfully, I would be okay with it if there was an option for refunding me back the cost of the bundled software that I will never use and never wanted with the hardware I did want. I'd be okay with that, at least.
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switch-hitter is offline switch-hitter
2013-10-07 , 17:34
Posts: 207 | Thanked: 552 times | Joined on Jul 2011
#266
When you purchase a new Windows PC it often comes preloaded with a 30 day demo of software a, b and c and a lite version of software x, y and z. The vendors of those programs pay large volume manufacturers to preinstall them on new PCs and cummulatively those payments add up to more than the cost of an OEM Windows license.

Although it irritates me that PCs invariably come with Windows preinstalled the 'Windows Tax' to the end user is actually probably zero.

If you're determined to get an OS free PC in the UK ebuyer's Zoostorm range are the best I know of. For laptops they only seem to have pink in available at the moment but I think it looks a decent spec for the money.
 

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mikecomputing is offline mikecomputing
2013-10-07 , 19:14
Posts: 3,464 | Thanked: 5,107 times | Joined on Feb 2010 @ Gothenburg in Sweden
#267
Originally Posted by zimon View Post
"Normal" desktop Linuxes have poor touchscreen support and applications are not designed for a touch screen UX.
Therefore Android
Here we go again with Android propaganda. Ever heard of plasmaactive?
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strongm is offline strongm
2013-10-07 , 20:07
Posts: 496 | Thanked: 651 times | Joined on Jan 2010 @ London
#268
>Ever heard of plasmaactive?

Plasma Active is not based on a "Normal desktop Linux". It is based on Mer, which is a mobile optimised Linux. You are simply helping zimon make his point.
 

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zimon is offline zimon
2013-10-07 , 20:40
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#269
Originally Posted by mikecomputing View Post
Here we go again with Android propaganda. Ever heard of plasmaactive?
apps, apps, apps.
Apps with a touchscreen UX.

http://www.appbrain.com/stats/number-of-android-apps

Current number of Android apps in the market: 861190
That's why Jolla has ACL in Sailfish and that's why Samsung will have ACL in Tizen.

Android's SDK and Java language apparently just works. It is relatively easy to make scalable apps with those, so lower and higher level hw is supported w/o too much hassle, and small & big screen sizes.
Qt enables the above also, but it is more difficult and bad programmers can mess things up easily.
I very much doubt, if there ever will be even 20% of touch screen UX Qt apps compared to number of Android apps.
 
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Kangal is offline Kangal
2013-10-07 , 23:57
Posts: 1,789 | Thanked: 1,699 times | Joined on Mar 2010
#270
Microsoft buying Nokia?
The vision is realized.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fI_xu...r_embedded#t=1
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Originally Posted by mscion View Post
I vote that Kangal replace Elop!
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