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pycage is offline pycage
2013-12-18 , 14:58
Posts: 3,404 | Thanked: 4,474 times | Joined on Oct 2005 @ Germany
#1991
Originally Posted by tissot View Post
Here's some about that.
http://wpsailors.com/2013/12/18/joll...te-soc-change/
So it can only become better. Right now it's on par with the N9, I'd say. Disabling 3G in areas with weak reception helps a bit, too.
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zwer is offline zwer
2013-12-18 , 15:07
Posts: 455 | Thanked: 782 times | Joined on Nov 2009 @ Netherlands
#1992
Originally Posted by P@t View Post
Where is the bug tracker for iOS and Android?
I'm all for cutting some slack to Jolla given their size and efforts so far, but we have to stop excusing them for doing / not doing something that iOS and/or Android developers do / don't do. Most of us are sailing on jolla precisely because we are not happy with the current offer from the aforementioned. If I wanted an iOS or Android device I wouldn't have followed Jolla at all. Aren't they supposed to be, you know - unlike?

I do think that any serious software product, and it doesn't get much more serious than a full-blown OS itself, needs to have a bug tracker accessible by its users. Nowadays it's not a rarity for software to completely overshadow the hardware in terms of complexity, down to the last transistor - thus, no matter how much people and time you devote to testing it will necessarily come out with a ton of bugs, and not just bugs that fit under a 'special use case' but some downright glaring. That's why you need to extend your bug tracking facilities all the way to the users of your software because both parties benefit in that process.

Just because Apple and Google don't have such facilities in place, doesn't mean that Jolla shouldn't.
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2013-12-18 , 15:12
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#1993
Originally Posted by Silwer View Post
I do not want to sound "Lumiaman", however, after one day using Jolla I can not find a single thing that performs on Jolla better than on N9. Jolla Sailfish is still so beta.
I might be even using N9 for next 6 months and hopefully by that time Jolla has improved a bit.
Agreeing with Lumiaman is similar to telling time with a broken clock.
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pycage is offline pycage
2013-12-18 , 15:21
Posts: 3,404 | Thanked: 4,474 times | Joined on Oct 2005 @ Germany
#1994
Originally Posted by zwer View Post
I'm all for cutting some slack to Jolla given their size and efforts so far, but we have to stop excusing them for doing / not doing something that iOS and/or Android developers do / don't do. Most of us are sailing on jolla precisely because we are not happy with the current offer from the aforementioned. If I wanted an iOS or Android device I wouldn't have followed Jolla at all. Aren't they supposed to be, you know - unlike?

I do think that any serious software product, and it doesn't get much more serious than a full-blown OS itself, needs to have a bug tracker accessible by its users. Nowadays it's not a rarity for software to completely overshadow the hardware in terms of complexity, down to the last transistor - thus, no matter how much people and time you devote to testing it will necessarily come out with a ton of bugs, and not just bugs that fit under a 'special use case' but some downright glaring. That's why you need to extend your bug tracking facilities all the way to the users of your software because both parties benefit in that process.

Just because Apple and Google don't have such facilities in place, doesn't mean that Jolla shouldn't.
IMHO, users don't (know how to) use bug trackers.
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2013-12-18 , 15:29
Posts: 455 | Thanked: 782 times | Joined on Nov 2009 @ Netherlands
#1995
Originally Posted by pycage View Post
IMHO, users don't (know how to) use bug trackers.
Fair enough. However I do think that users of the software can and should contribute towards its overall quality, and while most lame users either don't bother or don't know how to use them, there are those who do and are willing to.

A bug tracker, even a simplified one, and a knowledgeable moderator for it are not much of an expense and benefits are usually greater than such small investment.
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strongm is offline strongm
2013-12-18 , 15:32
Posts: 496 | Thanked: 651 times | Joined on Jan 2010 @ London
#1996
Originally Posted by pycage View Post
IMHO, users don't (know how to) use bug trackers.
That may be true of typical phone users - but is that the target audience for the current iteration of Jolla/Sailfish?
 
Milhouse is offline Milhouse
2013-12-18 , 15:34
Posts: 3,401 | Thanked: 1,255 times | Joined on Nov 2005 @ London, UK
#1997
Originally Posted by pycage View Post
The Sailfish mailing list has information about bug reporting and lessons learned from Maemo days.
Good to hear - do you have a link to the discussion?

Never mind, found it.

I'll pipe down about the lack of a Bugzilla for now, but if there's nothing forthcoming in the new year I'll be raising the issue again.
Last edited by Milhouse; 2013-12-18 at 15:58.
 
Milhouse is offline Milhouse
2013-12-18 , 15:40
Posts: 3,401 | Thanked: 1,255 times | Joined on Nov 2005 @ London, UK
#1998
Originally Posted by P@t View Post
Where is the bug tracker for iOS and Android?
I don't care how Apple or Google run their development, the key thing is that there has always been an active bug tracker for Maemo/MeeGo-Harmattan projects, practically since day #1 back in 2005, and I don't see why Jolla should be any different given their history and legacy.

Open projects (and I don't include Android in that definition) have always had public bug trackers. Jolla claim they are open and "unlike" the rest, so...
 
Milhouse is offline Milhouse
2013-12-18 , 15:48
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#1999
Originally Posted by zwer View Post
Fair enough. However I do think that users of the software can and should contribute towards its overall quality, and while most lame users either don't bother or don't know how to use them, there are those who do and are willing to.

A bug tracker, even a simplified one, and a knowledgeable moderator for it are not much of an expense and benefits are usually greater than such small investment.
Totally agree, I'm pretty sure I'm not wrong when I say that the community would be more than willing to help moderate a public bug tracker. It's always been that way in the past with Maemo and Harmattan Bugzillas. I lost count of the number of new bugs I marked as "duplicates", created by users that didn't bother to search and thought they were the first to discover a bug. It's not a major hardship as long as the tracker provides some value which it usually does, even if it's not read the software team (although it should at least filter into their internal system).
 

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2013-12-18 , 15:59
Posts: 343 | Thanked: 819 times | Joined on Jan 2010 @ Paris, France
#2000
Originally Posted by zwer View Post
Just because Apple and Google don't have such facilities in place, doesn't mean that Jolla shouldn't.
Do not read only first line I never meant such a thing.
I am all in favour of more communication/transparency. I am just suggesting to leave them some time to implement things as we want...
And we should be happy of what they did already because in the rest of the world, this is not that brilliant!
 

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