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premnas |
2013-12-18
, 18:53
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Posts: 27 |
Thanked: 7 times |
Joined on Dec 2013
@ Rome,IT
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#1291
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Yes correct. At least an official word on the issue. And not just copy and paste FAQ
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2013-12-18
, 18:57
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Posts: 951 |
Thanked: 2,344 times |
Joined on Jan 2012
@ UK
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#1292
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Well I would take it as a good sign that people are so passionate about getting their Jolla phone. I will not lie I am quite annoyed and slowly losing my mind checking the order page and the spreadsheet but my 3 weeks is still not up so I can't complain.
Once 3 weeks have passed then I will complain
Once 3 weeks have passed then I will complain
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2013-12-18
, 19:04
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Posts: 285 |
Thanked: 1,900 times |
Joined on Feb 2010
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#1293
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Originally Posted by epmt
There is also our disagreement. I don't believe that any form of additional communication to what they have done so far (with the exception that they should have admitted the problems before the situation heated too much) would have made any real difference.
I get that. However, what is - and has been - possible all this time is adding communication and a sense that they are truly listening and hearing.
Unlike you, I don't even care about either of those things. My feedback has been to improve the process and the communication. I can perfectly well live with the delivery delays and the DNA launch. I think the big issue is lack of communications and disrespecting the pre-order order.
Slowness is not an issue (we understand they are a startup) and even the DNA part I could let be, although it would have been great there too if they had given info early on that more 2nd wave orderers could have selected DNA store pick-up - one more place where open communications early on would have helped customers make decisions that help them and actually would have helped Jolla too by lessening their logistical woes. Now many people didn't choose DNA store pick-up because they thought it would add delay to the delivery.
That's the really saddest part. I think Jolla have added to their own work and worry by deciding to not communicate.
Basically the definition of "closed" (vs. open) is they the other party decides what is relevant. Had Jolla been open, they would have let the community decide a bit more what info they can use and what not. I think they could have been surprised what openness can do.
So if you feel that way, answer me this:
How do you think Jolla's community basedness has shown itself in the pre-order process fulfillment?
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2013-12-18
, 19:05
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Posts: 1,389 |
Thanked: 1,857 times |
Joined on Feb 2010
@ Israel
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#1294
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Hmmm ironically "I am first one" LE ( still don;t get waht is so limited in theme, ringtone and colour) is not included in packages anymore, instead we have note that it would be send latter ( no dates? )
They ignored my question on twitter, anyone has any info on that?
Did they want to change it to "i was almost first one" or "i love to wait" ?
They ignored my question on twitter, anyone has any info on that?
Did they want to change it to "i was almost first one" or "i love to wait" ?
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2013-12-18
, 19:08
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Posts: 388 |
Thanked: 1,340 times |
Joined on Nov 2007
@ Finland
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#1295
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Originally Posted by epmt
Please.
If it helps at all, some of us do sympathize and feel your frustration. Unfortunately some feel you are whining.
We do sympathize and feel for both of your frustration. It's not about that. You have misunderstood.
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2013-12-18
, 19:11
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Posts: 30 |
Thanked: 6 times |
Joined on Dec 2013
@ milano
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#1296
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Originally Posted by premnas
Honestly ... All of this is a joke . I am very very disappointed with Jolla.
No communication. No planning. No customer service. No phone.
#200003130 in PAID since November 28 (when I PAID) and I got the email to access the web shop on the 27th ! 0 EUR order in May!
Rome, IT
It 's really strange, it's like you were blocked. From Monday, just picking up the 3000, and oddly enough they are almost all Finns. To me they have a few phones and many, including myself, unfortunately, will receive the phone after Christmas.
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2013-12-18
, 19:13
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Posts: 98 |
Thanked: 104 times |
Joined on Dec 2013
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#1297
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Originally Posted by att
I didn't mean you.
Please.
We do sympathize and feel for both of your frustration. It's not about that. You have misunderstood.
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2013-12-18
, 19:24
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Posts: 292 |
Thanked: 294 times |
Joined on Jan 2012
@ Milan, Italy
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#1298
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Everybody has the right to feel frustrated (I also felt a bit like that during the past weeks, but luckiy I got my "In picking" notification today), and everybody has the right to express his/her disappointment. Sometimes, somebody has gone a little bit "over the top", over-reacted, or call it like you want. IMHO, obviously.
And apart from that, we started from a fair (even if sometimes harsh) discussion, but we ended with a mere reiteration of the same concepts, over and over and over, without bringing the discussion really any further. That's when all the thing became annoying whining to me. Again, IMHO.
Premnas, I can totally feel your frustration (da compatriota ancora di più). I had the luck to go "in picking" around the moment I expected to (after making my calculations from this thread and the spreadsheet), you didn't.
Last edited by Watchmaker; 2013-12-18 at 19:28.
And apart from that, we started from a fair (even if sometimes harsh) discussion, but we ended with a mere reiteration of the same concepts, over and over and over, without bringing the discussion really any further. That's when all the thing became annoying whining to me. Again, IMHO.
Premnas, I can totally feel your frustration (da compatriota ancora di più). I had the luck to go "in picking" around the moment I expected to (after making my calculations from this thread and the spreadsheet), you didn't.
Last edited by Watchmaker; 2013-12-18 at 19:28.
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2013-12-18
, 19:27
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Posts: 98 |
Thanked: 104 times |
Joined on Dec 2013
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#1299
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Originally Posted by JulmaHerra
I get that. I disagree to an extreme extent. I think more communications would have made a dramatic difference for the better for Jolla and the community.
There is also our disagreement. I don't believe that any form of additional communication to what they have done so far (with the exception that they should have admitted the problems before the situation heated too much) would have made any real difference.
Originally Posted by JulmaHerra
Sure, like I've said many times, had Jolla delivered the phones promptly, there would have been no need for further communication on it. My suggestion wasn't to make running commentary on everything Jolla does, but at critical moments understand about the benefits of openness. When the delays started rearing their heads, that was the moment when better communications would have - in my opinion - helped immensely.
People I have spoke with cared more about the delivery than sweet comms. There is clearly much to improve in process, in communications too, but at this moment the communication it's not the burning issue. Getting those devices delivered is.
Originally Posted by JulmaHerra
Sure, I get that. But I didn't suggest making people change their order type. I meant being open early on and giving people information to help them choose. Jolla's CEO just made it sound like delivering the phones to DNA was much easier for them, why didn't they tell us of that beforehand? Give people information that helps them make more informed choices.
Most pre-orderers chose their type of delivery before the problems arose and escalated to current extent. Changing them afterwards would have made already burdensome mess even more burdensome and confusing.
Originally Posted by JulmaHerra
I argue it would NOT have taken any more time off from doing those delivers. Handing out information would be done by different people than are actually fulfilling the deliveries.
In that case, please answer this question: how would it have contributed to the actual delivery process when it would have taken more time off doing those deliveries?
In fact, I actually think giving out more timely information, more openly would have meant Jolla had to answer less tweets, less care emails etc. and would have actually saved Jolla time. Pre-emptive, timely communications can help a lot.
Originally Posted by JulmaHerra
You have very low expectations what "community based" means. You are entitled to your opinion, of course. I expected better from Jolla, I actually thought they'd be unlike. And I'm not trying to be smart*** about it, I sincerely thought Jolla's community attitude was much more open than this process has proven it to be.
As far as I'm concerned, their workers have devoted some time to actually speak with the community.
I did NOT expect this from Jolla. The delays? Sure, problems happen at startups. The closedness, the silence, the evasive PR platitudes? No way I saw it coming. Very disappointing.
Originally Posted by JulmaHerra
Well, to me at least this process has shown Jolla tried to be like most other companies. Not unlike.
Most companies don't do that at all.
Originally Posted by JulmaHerra
Without information it is very hard to know they are doing anything at all. Silence makes things faith based. You know, many people thought Jolla was going to deliver before the DNA sales while they already knew on the background they would no way make it. This means we can't trust the silence. (In this particular case, my feeling is that we can, though, expect most to get their Jollas shipping by Christmas - so at least that part to me seems optimistic.)
For me, instead of having reports of delivery progress (ie. how many devices are still waiting), it's much more important to know they are doing their best to get those devices delivered,
Originally Posted by JulmaHerra
I disagree. Read this thread. There are dozens and dozens of pages of people sharing info about order tracking progress that they had to build up themselves, because Jolla chose not to share anything about the process. A lot of that effort could have been alleviated with more openness.
This is the part where communicating with community can actually contribute something useful. Discussing details about delivery problems and progress is not.
Not to mention the emotional part. This treatment certainly doesn't make it seem like Jolla wants to share in a movement with people. It seems more like they want blind followers. Now, I'm sure that is not a fair perception, but I'm just saying that's what the silence is saying to me - and I doubt I'm completely alone in that perception.
I know others feel differently and that's fine. This is a Jolla order tracking thread, not in any way majorly important for our or Jolla's future, so let's not make it any bigger than it is. But as my feedback, I think Jolla could have improved a lot - and I do think they would be wise to open up more.
And saying people just can't be satisfied isn't the best line to start with, no matter how potentially misunderstood.
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2013-12-18
, 19:29
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Posts: 98 |
Thanked: 104 times |
Joined on Dec 2013
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#1300
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Originally Posted by Watchmaker
I can understand your frustration, I actually think it is similarly frustrating to read messages like yours in response time and time again. Wouldn't it be nicer if everyone just shared my opinion?
And apart from that, we started from a fair (even if sometimes harsh) discussion, to a mere reiteration of the same concepts, over and over and over, without bringing the discussion really any further. That's when all the thing became annoying whining to me. Again, IMHO.
New people joined in, in the latest instance JulmaHerra. I think it is perfectly natural that new people joining in means repeating some of that conversation, because they bring those topics back.
Discussion is hard, and sometimes frustrating and repetitive. Life.
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