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	w00t	2014-10-03 , 02:24
	Posts: 1,055 \| Thanked: 4,107 times \| Joined on Oct 2009 @ Norway	#211

Originally Posted by gaelic

I understand that the 'core' system should be as stable as possible. nevertheless it should be possible that some 'internal applications' are updated as the applications available through jollastore. This means for example updates for the mail application + new features incl. sync profiles etc.

Right, except that we don't have bundling of all dependencies of an application. Welcome to Linux, enjoy your horribly uncomfortable stay unless you have a large team of people who know what API/ABI stability are, and can also claim to keep bug compatibility.

(I've yet to meet those people, unfortunately)

The impact of this is that if you just upgrade one part of things, you massively bloat out the number of combinations you have to test. And if any of those have a problem, and you miss it, well done - you just broke an application for an end user.

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	Dave999	2014-10-03 , 05:00
	Posts: 7,075 \| Thanked: 9,073 times \| Joined on Oct 2009 @ Moon! It's not the East or the West side... it's the Dark Side	#212

Hey woot. Welcome back. Didn't you steal the latest update before you left. Bring us the leak. We won't tell anyone

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aegis	2014-10-03 , 07:38
Posts: 702 \| Thanked: 2,059 times \| Joined on Feb 2011 @ UK	#213

Originally Posted by Wikiwide

Quick reply...

What is the part that you do not trust: the compiler or the code? If compiler, then compile it yourself, like Gentoo, or feed it to a trusted builder. If code, then read it, or wait for the developers whom you trust to read it.

Best wishes.

Neither or either. It doesn't matter. There is a trusted set of developers that have a duty to ensure a change is good and appropriate.. Jolla.

It's the same reason I take patches and updates from a restricted set of repos on my web servers rather than just finding a patch online and recompiling it. I can't review code for every change so I rely on professional companies with QA and support contracts.

nieldk	2014-10-03 , 07:52
Guest \| Posts: n/a \| Thanked: 0 times \| Joined on	#214

Originally Posted by aegis

Neither or either. It doesn't matter. There is a trusted set of developers that have a duty to ensure a change is good and appropriate.. Jolla.

It's the same reason I take patches and updates from a restricted set of repos on my web servers rather than just finding a patch online and recompiling it. I can't review code for every change so I rely on professional companies with QA and support contracts.

lol. If you dont know where to find the original sources, then dont install it.
hint! its GNU bash - use this search to find official patches
https://www.google.com/webhp?sourcei...+gnu+bash+4.3+

	javispedro	2014-10-03 , 08:20
	Posts: 2,355 \| Thanked: 5,249 times \| Joined on Jan 2009 @ Barcelona	#215

Originally Posted by w00t

You have no idea how amused I am that "smart watch" got presumably hit by the forum swear filter.

If you want more laughs, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=93648 (edit: wait, you already knew this

Last edited by javispedro; 2014-10-03 at 08:22.

	javispedro	2014-10-03 , 08:26
	Posts: 2,355 \| Thanked: 5,249 times \| Joined on Jan 2009 @ Barcelona	#216

Originally Posted by vistaus

The keyword here is 'trust'. I trust Jolla and I trust OpenRepos.net .

/me explodes.

	Dave999	2014-10-03 , 08:33
	Posts: 7,075 \| Thanked: 9,073 times \| Joined on Oct 2009 @ Moon! It's not the East or the West side... it's the Dark Side	#217

Originally Posted by javispedro

If you want more laughs, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=93648 (edit: wait, you already knew this ).

http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=91316

__________________
Do something for the climate today! Anything!

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	javispedro	2014-10-03 , 08:33
	Posts: 2,355 \| Thanked: 5,249 times \| Joined on Jan 2009 @ Barcelona	#218

Originally Posted by w00t

Seeing the number of distros that ship complex things like Qt virtually unpatched at the .0 minor release, after knowing the amount of effort we had to put into 5.1.x and now 5.2.x to get them to a remotely product-capable level, makes me realise that the people testing them aren't really testing them at all. Either that or they're testing with a "hello world".

So on one side you have things like Debian Stable which ship 2-5 year old packages and take years to "stabilize", and on the other hand you have rolling distros which explicitly have minimal QA only (a glaring example is Sid).

You'd be surprised at the number of users Sid has.

I'm not saying one method is better than the other, but there's definitely some significant number of users that would choose "MOAR updated" even if it meant "it crashes every other day". I mean, google for "$DISTRO 'unstable' branch does not deserve its name, it's actually quite stable!!!!"-like posts where you get lots of people with questionable definitions of "quite stable".

Note personally I don't care about this. I use Gentoo stable, which is still stuck at a gcc version not much newer than what Jolla ships today, and Qt 4.8 .

Last edited by javispedro; 2014-10-03 at 08:37.

gaelic	2014-10-03 , 08:48
Posts: 201 \| Thanked: 410 times \| Joined on Dec 2013	#219

Originally Posted by w00t

Right, except that we don't have bundling of all dependencies of an application. Welcome to Linux, enjoy your horribly uncomfortable stay unless you have a large team of people who know what API/ABI stability are, and can also claim to keep bug compatibility.

(I've yet to meet those people, unfortunately)

The impact of this is that if you just upgrade one part of things, you massively bloat out the number of combinations you have to test. And if any of those have a problem, and you miss it, well done - you just broke an application for an end user.

Of course I understand the problems. Nevertheless it is achievable.

billranton	2014-10-03 , 09:11
Posts: 307 \| Thanked: 1,460 times \| Joined on May 2011 @ Switzerland	#220

Originally Posted by nieldk

lol. If you dont know where to find the original sources, then dont install it.
hint! its GNU bash - use this search to find official patches
https://www.google.com/webhp?sourcei...+gnu+bash+4.3+

I appreciate the work you do over on openrepos, but the guy has a point about QA. That's the main difference between updates from you guys at openrepos and Jolla, and it's perfectly acceptable for someone to want to wait for the official package from Jolla that's undergone the sort of rigorous QA w00t is describing. That's the trust he's talking about - not suspicion of malicious code.

The problems back in March with bash are a clear example of that. It shouldn't be up to you guys to do extensive QA, so most people should get their stuff from Jolla and the store so they can be sure their phone will (mostly) keep working.