Rostelecom investment in Jolla - Page 12 - maemo.org

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	nthn	2018-04-23 , 21:17
	Posts: 764 \| Thanked: 2,889 times \| Joined on Jun 2014	#111

In what is perhaps the most ironic turn of events thus far, the Russian telecom watchdog Roskomnadzor has apparently blocked all access to Jolla websites.

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lantern	2018-04-23 , 21:20
Posts: 367 \| Thanked: 1,442 times \| Joined on Feb 2015	#112

they blocked many things. google.com doesn't work here, for example. captcha's and blogs on blogspot don't load, too

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Zeta	2018-04-23 , 21:28
Posts: 339 \| Thanked: 1,623 times \| Joined on Oct 2013 @ France	#113

Originally Posted by pichlo

FWIW, it seems like we have exhausted all that can be possibly said on "Rostelecom investment in Jolla".

The question between the roles of Jolla Ltd. HK and Jolla Oy FI was still opened the last time I checked, and so is the impact of Rostelecom which seems involved more in Jolla Ltd (not clear).

While at fossnorth18, Cybette has taken the following picture of a presentation by James Noori from Jolla:
https://twitter.com/cybette/status/988406967973621761

We can read "Jolla Ltd develops and licenses Sailfish OS", then that they have offices in Helsinki, Tampere and HK.
So on one hand they explicitely mention Jolla *Ltd*, not Oy. But on the other hand they say they have offices in Finland, where it should be Jolla Oy...

The more they talk, the less clear it is about who does or owns what...

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	Feathers McGraw	2018-04-23 , 23:43
	Posts: 654 \| Thanked: 2,368 times \| Joined on Jul 2014 @ UK	#114

Originally Posted by rinigus

cut the beginning of the quote, although it was spot on.

Thanks, nice to know I'm not the only one thinking it.

Now, if you sprinkle your concerns with the closed source components that happen to be dealing with your input (keyboard), communication with your accounts, I am not sure you need that much telemetry to get lots of data regarding the users. And that's a part where owners may play a decisive role.

Exactly. Also even for the open source components, as long as everyone is using packages and binaries built by Jolla, "Jolla has root". You really have to trust your distro maintainer.

There are some things I don't like about Purism's approach to the software for the librem5, but I expect basing their distro on Debian makes it much easier for third parties to build their OS starting from a trusted base provided by someone else, so you wouldn't have to build absolutely everything - you could conceivably build " just" the UI parts from source. Mer seems to be a bit of a clusterf*ck of old packages based on the GPLv2 vs GPLv3 thing, and where do you get a mer image from if you don't trust Jolla? Much shorter list.

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	mosen	2018-04-24 , 17:08
	Community Council \| Posts: 1,669 \| Thanked: 10,227 times \| Joined on Nov 2014 @ Lower Rhine	#115

Originally Posted by Zeta

So on one hand they explicitely mention Jolla *Ltd*, not Oy. But on the other hand they say they have offices in Finland, where it should be Jolla Oy...

Legally, it is the exact same.
Osakeyhtiö, abbreviated to Oy, is the Finnish name for a limited company.

Maybe they use Oy for patriotic reason or simply to make clear they mean the FI office and Ltd. when refered to HK? I do not care since it was stated that it is at least two seperate companies. From the official legal footer on website and emails they use Ltd. also for FI.
Also note, we have two names, so two companies, Jolla Ltd. and Jolla Asia Ltd, of which Rostelecom now is the grand sharehodler.

Jolla Ltd
Kalevantie 2
33100 Tampere
Finland

Jolla Ltd
Jolla c/o Weplus Europe Oy
Tallberginkatu 1 C 135, 2nd floor
00180 Helsinki
Finland

Jolla Asia Ltd
Cyberport 1
100 Cyberport Road
Hong Kong

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Zeta	2018-04-24 , 18:06
Posts: 339 \| Thanked: 1,623 times \| Joined on Oct 2013 @ France	#116

Originally Posted by mosen

Legally, it is the exact same.
Osakeyhtiö, abbreviated to Oy, is the Finnish name for a limited ompany.

Maybe they use Oy for patriotic reason or simply to make clear they mean the FI office and Ltd. when refered to HK?

Indeed, now that you point it, that would make sense.

Still not answering the question which is responsible of what, but at least the names make sense for me now

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	olf	2018-04-24 , 19:17
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Originally Posted by mosen

Legally, it is the exact same. [...]

Are you sure, and do you have a reference for that?

I am asking, because Jolla (e.g. James Noori lately) consistently depicted Jolla FI = Jolla Oy = Jolla Ltd to be a different legal entity than Jolla HK = Jolla Asia Ltd.
Some more evidence evidence exists, that such a separation makes sense and is the way it is implemented.

BTW, Jolla Helsinki was always described to be just an office in Helsinki (apparently of Jolla FI).

Last edited by olf; 2018-04-24 at 19:24.

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	mosen	2018-04-24 , 19:54
	Community Council \| Posts: 1,669 \| Thanked: 10,227 times \| Joined on Nov 2014 @ Lower Rhine	#118

Originally Posted by olf

Are you sure, and do you have a reference for that?

If the all-knowing Trash Heap is right, absolutely!
Thanks for asking and destroying my attempt to sound competent by copying the first sentence from a wikipedia article

From personal experience, i know that the german GmbH is often announced as Ltd. to foreigners so they comprehend the implications of the legal relationship instead of confusing them with local company terms.

This is not a legal advice, consult your attorney for further clarification and legal implications

EDIt:
The difference between countries is mainly the amount of capital you have to put upfront to create this legal entity. Mainly as safety buffer to pay for are major failure.
In germany it is at least 25000€, the more the higher the crdibility against big customers and debitors.
England is famous for the 1 Pound Ltd. you can click yourself online and wait for the paperwork to arrive

Last edited by mosen; 2018-04-24 at 20:25.

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	olf	2018-04-24 , 23:43
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Originally Posted by mosen

[...] Thanks for asking and destroying my attempt to sound competent by copying the first sentence from a wikipedia article
[...]

Oh, this seems to be a pretty misunderstanding:

Sure, "Oy", "Ltd.", "GmbH" etc. are similar legal forms in different jurisdictions.
"Jolla Oy" (in Tampere, Finland) and "Jolla Ltd." (Hong Kong) are different legal entities (as you also pointed out, already), but their exact relationship is unclear.

But unfortunately there seems to be no fresh information on the proportions of shares held in "Jolla Oy (FI)" and / or "Jolla Ltd. (HK)" beyond what has been discussed on TJC (see also bullet list in comment to next answer there).

I originally assumed, that your post #115 was not solely about the different names for similar legal forms in different jurisdictions.

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	pichlo	2018-04-25 , 05:09
	Posts: 6,453 \| Thanked: 20,983 times \| Joined on Sep 2012 @ UK	#120

In the risk of being accused of off-topicing the thread again...

I have noticed a (to me, a positive) trend. The "leave Jolla alone, they are saints, our saviours, who can do nothing wrong" camp has diminished to practically zero. Now pretty much everyone is displaying a healthy level of scepticism and caution. Something I've been calling for for years but was always shouted down.

Or is it just here on TMO? Is TJC still the bastion of religious fanatism? I do not go there any more, the environment was way too hostile to my liking.

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