(too verbose, skip)

I was quite skeptical about buying n8x0 Nokia for one simple reason, having done some programing in the past I know how hard it is for any company to write good software. Apple is and continues to be one singular exception, almost everything they do is intelligently and lovingly designed and it works for the most part. Nokia unfortunately never was in their league.

But I bought n800, simply because I wanted to have something portable. Generally I'm happy, I love the large screen, excellent speakers for such a small device, certain sense of plasticky robustness about it, little stand built into it, good audio generally, SD memory extensions, etc.

Of course the device isn't perfect, as everybody else I dislike it being underpowered (iPod video has far more oomph to it!), cheap screen technology (sloppily illuminated old style LCD), highly unergonomic placement of various buttons, their very poor tactile quality, the fact that Nokia didn't even think about marking them in some way (raised dots for example) to make it easier to identify them by touch (some are way to close to each other), really crappy video camera, etc.

The reason I writing this however is to complain about SOFTWARE QUALITY, whatever little Nokia provides is of very mixed quality, I like very much their recent OS, great improvement visual and practical (large screen objects as a primary way for user to interact with the device), browser passable but nothing to write home about, but e-mail client and a few others stink as bad as they ever did.

3rd party commercial s/w is generally good, that is all three of them Skype, Gizmo and Wayfinder Map.

The major problem is with s/w provided by open source community. Nobody expects smooth sailing here, but the current state of what is out there is appalling.

There is that main site Maemo, that is run so unprofessionally that there is always one feature or two not working (categories as of this writing for example).

They list some 166 apps for n8x0, out of which some 90% are either un-installable or not functioning or basically unusable or simply useless.

For example not a single app/utility that has anything to do with mapping works properly or at all. Maemo Mapper is a total joke as far as map management is concerned, its UI grossly subpar compared to any commercial offering, all others (City Guide, Map Tiler, etc) are basically nonfunctional. Tried to install all of their alternative text editors, neither of them works or installs. Same thing with the rest of that collection of 166 software horrors. Take EggTimer for example. Runs depending on the face of moon.

There are a few low level (no GUI) utilities that work for the most part but even there problems abound. For example App Manager told me yesterday three updates to openssh suite are available. Well one of them installed, the other two refused - missing package or two. Now what kind of person releases an update to a major important s/w package w/o making sure that all the required packages are included? Unacceptably sloppy person that is. And that seem to be the norm in this community.

Kudos to those who offer a few programs that are useful and decently built. GPE-calendar is one of them, as is their contact and file manager. So is Transmission (bitTorrent client) and Modest (small, and excellent IMAP client that works w/o a hitch with gMail, a feat beyond capabilities of Nokia software engineers).

But those are very few, the appeal here is - please clean up that mess that is out there and if you are a contributor realize please that releasing something that is not even 5% baked, with zero intention of providing even basic support in the future AIN'T DOING ANYBODY ANY GOOD. It just makes that mess out there messier.

Speaking as a long time apple product user, although I love most of their stuff there is no way you can say that almost everything they do is good. Some of the stuff they do is downright dumb!

But that aside, considering you say that apple stuff is good and nokia stuff is bad, why did you buy a nokia device?

Then as an developer, I would say that noone releases something they believe to be bad (unless they clearly state so up front) but you cant really expect people who are doing this stuff for free to provide you with support.

Why dont' you take the nokia back and get an iPod?

[scratching head]
Umgh... I never knew the situation was that bad. Installed applications off Maemo site just fine, ran them, encountered a few unfortunate but not life-threatening bugs. I am running Maemo Mapper, it may need a few UI fixes here and there, but so far I have not found anything majorly wrong with its interface. Built-in applications may not be very feature-complete but they generally work as advertised.

So, you are saying Maemo is pure horror for you? Are you a Mac user by any chance? If so, how long have you been affected by this ailment and whom have you contracted it from?

Nokia is not Apple and will never be
Thank goodness for that!

Don't know what you're smoking, but somehow, despite 90% of the offerings on Maemo.org being "either un-installable or not functioning or basically unusable or simply useless", 90% of us are installing and using them; maybe not always easily, but we're installing and using the uninstallable, unusable, useless, and otherwise non-Slightly-Used-Fruit-Empire apps.

And there's ton's of stuff off maemo.org, too. We're using it too, BTW.

If you can't use it, say so.
If you don't want to trouble yourself with it, because it's not easy, then say that.
But don't stand there and tell people who are using things that they're unusable.

You do realize that N800 is based on debian, and last time I checked, there are tons of programs for it...

http://packages.debian.org/stable/

No, N800 is not for everyone, but you can easily bring any debian apps to Maemo. N800 is an open system, while Ipod is a controlled system unless you Jailbreak, but even apps for that are limited.

As far as the openssh problem, they're working on it...
http://www.internettablettalk.com/fo...hlight=openssh

This is corny. Some of the posters could grow up a little. That goes for the thread starter as well as some of the commentor.

I'm primarily a Mac user at home, and a windows user/technician for work. Every OS has it's pros and cons. I personally have come to love and use my N800 (and linux, I suppose) over any other OS/computer that I own. Even so, there are many aspects of it that could vastly be improved that I don't think that the developer community puts a priority on. That statement can be applied to ANY OS. Fine by me, take some of the good with the bad.

Basically everyone's **** stinks, you're just better off when you admit it.

and the original post is why i would not miss apple onee bit if they just vanished one day.

What does the post have to do with Apple as a company? Make some sense.

Overly broad, unduly harsh, and just flat incorrect.

Try again... only without the ranting. You'll be taken more credibly.

Oh, and slamming Nokia is one thing-- but I think you're way out of line bashing the developer community. Especially the hard-working Gnuite (maemo mapper). Blows my mind that anyone would gripe that much over a free tool...

It breeds a culture of almost unhealthily obsessed fanatics ready to follow the Black Turtleneck(tm) to the end of the world, with gobs of money in their hands. Just curing this disease is a good enough reason not to weep about Apple's demise.