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meanwhile |
2008-04-07
, 22:25
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Posts: 66 |
Thanked: 17 times |
Joined on Apr 2008
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#81
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I like my 800 but, speaking as a professional software type, there's no way I would carry on with the current Hildon interface. It brings too much baggage from both desktops and phones, and it's plain *old*. The IPhone shouldn't have surprised Nokia in its overall outline - it combines the usability that Apple achieved with Newton with the "Minority Report" inspired look that everyone knew was the future of GUI since Msoft demoed Windows Presentation Foundation for the first time. (Hmmm... do you think MSoft laughed when they called a product WPF??) Nokia have to at least catch up fast - and not just to Apple. Windows Mobile will inevitably get a radical GUI work over too.
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2008-04-07
, 23:10
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Posts: 1,950 |
Thanked: 1,174 times |
Joined on Jan 2008
@ Seattle, USA
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#82
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Originally Posted by meanwhile
meanwhile, in light of your comments, I thought you might be interested in what I said on this thread three weeks ago:
I like my 800 but, speaking as a professional software type, there's no way I would carry on with the current Hildon interface. It brings too much baggage from both desktops and phones, and it's plain *old*.
You say they [the employees who left] are all from hildon teams. In light of that, with Canola seeming to be the most aggressively developed Tablet app, and it being developed under the auspices of the Nokia Institute of Technology, this excerpt from a message Marcelo (the public face of the Canola team) sent me might seem relevant:
"we are not a "integrated" application, in a sense that we don't use hildon, gtk, and we do not agree with the UI guidelines for maemo (they are old, and not good for the device, actually they were even not made for the device, it is based on the nokia 7700 and 7710 touchscreen phones from the past : / )"
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Help Save This Forum for N8x0/Diablo Users! Register and Vote for Solution #1 on this Brainstorm. (The Solution will let you see New Posts with any threads you choose -- like the N900 and Maemo5/Fremantle threads -- filtered out.) (To understand the Solution better, see these posts #17, #18, and #19.)
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2008-04-08
, 10:36
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Posts: 3,105 |
Thanked: 11,088 times |
Joined on Jul 2007
@ Mountain View (CA, USA)
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#83
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Originally Posted by meanwhile
... on an unrelated note. Do you know who was (among others) behind that Minority Report look? http://nordicwirelesswatch.com/wirel...?story_id=1805
the "Minority Report" inspired look that everyone knew was the future of GUI
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2008-04-09
, 16:14
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Posts: 1,540 |
Thanked: 1,045 times |
Joined on Feb 2007
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#84
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Is this thread still going?! Wow!
I do think the tablets should switch to a canola-like interface, and hope that this is what Nokia are secretly doing.
On the subject of Nokia catching up, it's easy to say "go for a new interface" but it's not so easy to do when you're the market leader and your market share is growing.
Nokia's phones currently make up 40% of the global market, more than double their nearest rival's share, and higher than they've ever been AFAIK. Their smartphones continue to outsell the competition put together. It's difficult for businesses in that kind of dominant position to make radical changes in case those changes cause them to fail. (Radical interface changes don't always go according to plan, remember when Microsoft experimented with "Bob" as an alternative to the Windows interface?)
Microsoft and Apple have tiny market shares globally for their phone OSes, so it's much easier for them to try something new as they're not risking as much. That's why competition is so good, because it automatically gives small companies a reason to innovate, and if that innovation succeeds then it discourages the big ones from being complacent. (Before people claim Windows Mobile has a huge market share, it doesn't outside the USA, and most smartphone sales are outside the USA.)
This is why I think the tablets are the best way forward for Nokia. The tablets have a tiny market share, so it's the perfect place for Nokia to try new interfaces and other technologies. They get to play being a bright new startup, they can take risks more comfortably. As far as the tablets are concerned, Nokia is a small company again, which is a good thing.
If you put this in terms of films, Nokia's phones and smartphones are like big budget blockbusters while their tablets are like indie releases. It's the indie releases that are responsible for most of the innovation, while the big budget blockbusters are terrified of taking risks.
Last edited by krisse; 2008-04-09 at 16:21.
I do think the tablets should switch to a canola-like interface, and hope that this is what Nokia are secretly doing.
On the subject of Nokia catching up, it's easy to say "go for a new interface" but it's not so easy to do when you're the market leader and your market share is growing.
Nokia's phones currently make up 40% of the global market, more than double their nearest rival's share, and higher than they've ever been AFAIK. Their smartphones continue to outsell the competition put together. It's difficult for businesses in that kind of dominant position to make radical changes in case those changes cause them to fail. (Radical interface changes don't always go according to plan, remember when Microsoft experimented with "Bob" as an alternative to the Windows interface?)
Microsoft and Apple have tiny market shares globally for their phone OSes, so it's much easier for them to try something new as they're not risking as much. That's why competition is so good, because it automatically gives small companies a reason to innovate, and if that innovation succeeds then it discourages the big ones from being complacent. (Before people claim Windows Mobile has a huge market share, it doesn't outside the USA, and most smartphone sales are outside the USA.)
This is why I think the tablets are the best way forward for Nokia. The tablets have a tiny market share, so it's the perfect place for Nokia to try new interfaces and other technologies. They get to play being a bright new startup, they can take risks more comfortably. As far as the tablets are concerned, Nokia is a small company again, which is a good thing.
If you put this in terms of films, Nokia's phones and smartphones are like big budget blockbusters while their tablets are like indie releases. It's the indie releases that are responsible for most of the innovation, while the big budget blockbusters are terrified of taking risks.
Last edited by krisse; 2008-04-09 at 16:21.
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2008-04-12
, 20:32
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Posts: 121 |
Thanked: 20 times |
Joined on Aug 2007
@ Amsterdam
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#85
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Originally Posted by krisse
Well written, I like the post in particular because it is of a more strategic perspective. To much Nerds here in this Chat box !
Is this thread still going?! Wow! .
Some additional comments, with respect.
I do think the tablets should switch to a canola-like interface, and hope that this is what Nokia are secretly doing.
I am afraid that likewise comments apply to the MediaBox and UKMP.
Also quality control of the Nokia Standard SW (as it comes with OS2008) is much better.
On the subject of Nokia catching up, it's easy to say "go for a new interface" but it's not so easy to do when you're the market leader and your market share is growing.
Nokia's phones currently make up 40% of the global market, more than double their nearest rival's share, and higher than they've ever been AFAIK. Their Smartphones continue to outsell the competition put together. It's difficult for businesses in that kind of dominant position to make radical changes in case those changes cause them to fail. (Radical interface changes don't always go according to plan, remember when Microsoft experimented with "Bob" as an alternative to the Windows interface?)
The UI of the Standard Media player does exactly what it should do: all buttons are easy understandable, playlists usable and interchangeable, internet radios supplied and easy to add to the list. The Standard Media player easily syncs with my standard PC player(s). Photoshows, it's all there in the standard SW.
Microsoft and Apple have tiny market shares globally for their phone OSes, so it's much easier for them to try something new as they're not risking as much. That's why competition is so good, because it automatically gives small companies a reason to innovate, and if that innovation succeeds then it discourages the big ones from being complacent. (Before people claim Windows Mobile has a huge market share, it doesn't outside the USA, and most smartphone sales are outside the USA.)
This is why I think the tablets are the best way forward for Nokia. The tablets have a tiny market share, so it's the perfect place for Nokia to try new interfaces and other technologies. They get to play being a bright new startup, they can take risks more comfortably. As far as the tablets are concerned, Nokia is a small company again,which is a good thing
), but: IHT: "Nokia sold worldwide 133.5 million phones in the last quarter of 2007, more than its three closest rivals combined."
IHT again: "Since its launch in March 2007 until January 2008, Nokia has sold more than 5.5 million units of its multimedia handset N95. This is more than the iPhone with sales of about 4 million units"
Perhaps Quality and Simple Effectiveness sell better than Bling Bling!
(As an example: you can still buy Nokias without a camera, but with Bluetooth and HSDPA: Companies and certainly the government don't like people walking around in office buildings with a photo / video camera on their phones !).
If you put this in terms of films, Nokia's phones and Smartphones are like big budget blockbusters while their tablets are like indie releases. It's the indie releases that are responsible for most of the innovation, while the big budget blockbusters are terrified of taking risks.
) For the record: When I want to show off my MIT ( in particular to kids): I start Canola,
But when I want to listen to music: I start the Standard Mediaplayer!
Also for the record: I don't think NITs are aimed at the 'Kids market'.
My interest for the ITT from the beginning was in Nokia carrying the "portable internet" concept That should be the way forward, not what Apple is doing with Bling Bling.
Thanks, Abel.
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2008-04-13
, 18:51
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Posts: 1,540 |
Thanked: 1,045 times |
Joined on Feb 2007
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#86
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AbelMN, thanks for the post, a very considered response.
I know Canola has too few options right now, but that could be fixed without changing its thumb-based interface. It's the interface I'm interested in, not the lack of options.
I do agree that a strength of Nokia's portable devices is that they can do stuff, they all have free SDKs available to anyone who wants them along with development forums and websites. It's not all open source, but Nokia's far more open than most device manufacturers.
However, a certain amount of "blingbling" wrapping is needed to get the sales coming in to grow the platform. I'm not talking about a "look what this can do!" thing but interfaces where people can immediately see how to do something. For example simple things like labelling the icons would help, and putting shortcuts to the most frequently used applications on the front page of the interface would be a good idea.
Just to put this in terms of new users, when I've shown Canola to newbies they've been much more interested in the device and willing to explore its features. I think an interface like Canola would help get the tablets off shop shelves and into people's pockets, which is the most important thing that a software platform needs to succeed.
It's worth remembering of course that we're just talking about the interface here, not the application platform. The apps could still run pretty much like they do now, it would just be a question of how people get to those apps. I think a Canola-style interface offers a more intuitive and logical means to find applications.
I know Canola has too few options right now, but that could be fixed without changing its thumb-based interface. It's the interface I'm interested in, not the lack of options.
I do agree that a strength of Nokia's portable devices is that they can do stuff, they all have free SDKs available to anyone who wants them along with development forums and websites. It's not all open source, but Nokia's far more open than most device manufacturers.
However, a certain amount of "blingbling" wrapping is needed to get the sales coming in to grow the platform. I'm not talking about a "look what this can do!" thing but interfaces where people can immediately see how to do something. For example simple things like labelling the icons would help, and putting shortcuts to the most frequently used applications on the front page of the interface would be a good idea.
Just to put this in terms of new users, when I've shown Canola to newbies they've been much more interested in the device and willing to explore its features. I think an interface like Canola would help get the tablets off shop shelves and into people's pockets, which is the most important thing that a software platform needs to succeed.
It's worth remembering of course that we're just talking about the interface here, not the application platform. The apps could still run pretty much like they do now, it would just be a question of how people get to those apps. I think a Canola-style interface offers a more intuitive and logical means to find applications.
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2008-04-13
, 19:28
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Posts: 481 |
Thanked: 65 times |
Joined on Aug 2007
@ Westcountry, UK
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#87
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Originally Posted by krisse
But nokia can and have changed user interface many times. Nokia really came to the high market share with.. I think it was the series 30 itnerface?
On the subject of Nokia catching up, it's easy to say "go for a new interface" but it's not so easy to do when you're the market leader and your market share is growing.
Nokia's phones currently make up 40% of the global market, more than double their nearest rival's share, and higher than they've ever been AFAIK. Their smartphones continue to outsell the competition put together. It's difficult for businesses in that kind of dominant position to make radical changes in case those changes cause them to fail.
It was the first phone I tried that it appeared like the manufacturers had thought about the problem. The functions took a variable number of menu steps and were arranged in such a way as the more like it was that you would select something, the fewer presses it was. And it just worked with the 2 buttons.
I went from that to a sony-ericson, and was horrified it took 7 keypresses to get to the message section (it took 3 on the nokia to have a message ready to edit).
The series 60 is really a step back from that interface. I like it but it is nowhere near as well thought out. The amount of times I have been hunting through the tools/options/applications menu looking for what I wanted, and had to work out which of the 6 buttons to press.
But people appear to want all the music players and camera stuff, and that the old interface didn't scale well to.
But anyway, unlike Microsoft or apple who are restricted by hardware, nokia have many phones using a variety of interfaces. They can introduce a radically different new one on one of their phones and see how it goes. They introduce loads of new phones all the time.
If it doesn't work- nothing lost. If it does it can spread to all the other phones.
Originally Posted by krisse
It would be, but they don't respond like a startup. The startup has the advantage of speed that a big company lacks. They don't have all the processes and procedures nailed into place unlike a large company, and the characters of the individuals can shine through.
This is why I think the tablets are the best way forward for Nokia. The tablets have a tiny market share, so it's the perfect place for Nokia to try new interfaces and other technologies. They get to play being a bright new startup, they can take risks more comfortably. As far as the tablets are concerned, Nokia is a small company again, which is a good thing.
Which is good if they are good, and bad if they aren't!
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2008-04-14
, 20:48
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Posts: 1,540 |
Thanked: 1,045 times |
Joined on Feb 2007
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#88
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Originally Posted by tabletrat
Perhaps, but it has more market share than its rivals put together. That's why Nokia is going to be reluctant to make any radical alterations, which was my original point.
The series 60 is really a step back from that interface. I like it but it is nowhere near as well thought out.
It would be, but they don't respond like a startup. The startup has the advantage of speed that a big company lacks. They don't have all the processes and procedures nailed into place unlike a large company, and the characters of the individuals can shine through.
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2008-04-15
, 18:51
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Posts: 2,853 |
Thanked: 968 times |
Joined on Nov 2005
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#89
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Well, mystery solved, no dark conspiracy against mameo and/or GTK at Nokia...
It seems all of them got snatched up by a mysterious "well-funded" startup in London, called LiTL, of which little is know except that it's "developing a consumer product that involves hardware, software, and online services". A total first, certainly.
See :
http://blogs.gnome.org/xan/2008/04/14/joining-litl/
and others.
It seems all of them got snatched up by a mysterious "well-funded" startup in London, called LiTL, of which little is know except that it's "developing a consumer product that involves hardware, software, and online services". A total first, certainly.
See :
http://blogs.gnome.org/xan/2008/04/14/joining-litl/
and others.
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2008-04-15
, 18:55
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Posts: 286 |
Thanked: 259 times |
Joined on Jan 2006
@ Cambridge, England
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#90
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Originally Posted by fpp
Whois on litl.com shows up Aquent in Boston, very mysterious.
Well, mystery solved, no dark conspiracy against mameo and/or GTK at Nokia...
It seems all of them got snatched up by a mysterious "well-funded" startup in London, called LiTL, of which little is know except that it's "developing a consumer product that involves hardware, software, and online services". A total first, certainly.
See :
http://blogs.gnome.org/xan/2008/04/14/joining-litl/
and others.
