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qole is offline qole
2008-06-12 , 19:46
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#41
Originally Posted by debernardis View Post
...then I'll populate it with openoffice.org only. Let's see how big it gets.
Populated with openoffice.org writer, draw and impress (for Word and PowerPoint compatibility), the directory is over 555 MB.
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Benson's Avatar
Benson is offline Benson
2008-06-12 , 19:52
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#42
Well, that probably includes a bunch of stuff that is provided by maemo; if there's an X server somewhere in the dependency tree, for example, you can really get rid of that. I bet there's a lot of cleanup possible, but going through and doing it will be huge time.

Especially if you do it the right way, which (I think?) is to make a package that provides all those things, so your dependencies aren't whacked and apt still goes.

What if you just pull all the docs, ala ITOS? Also, if it's dedicated chroot, you can clear out any trees that get stuff 'mount --bind'ed over top of them. I don't think that'll be much, though, overall.
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qole's Avatar
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2008-06-12 , 20:55
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#43
Originally Posted by Benson View Post
Well, that probably includes a bunch of stuff that is provided by maemo; if there's an X server somewhere in the dependency tree, for example, you can really get rid of that. I bet there's a lot of cleanup possible, but going through and doing it will be huge time.

Especially if you do it the right way, which (I think?) is to make a package that provides all those things, so your dependencies aren't whacked and apt still goes.
Yeah you would need to build an empty package that claims to provide all of the unneeded dependencies.

The whole point of this chroot business is to avoid that kind of work. I guess the cost of convenience is always going to be some bloat. Well, 8GB SD cards are ~$30, it's no big deal to just make a big partition.

It seems that the full sid rootfs works fine, it is that pesky minbase version that is causing still has all the dependency problems. I'll post a separate message about that.
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Last edited by qole; 2008-06-13 at 22:36.
 
qole's Avatar
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2008-06-12 , 22:46
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#44
Ok everyone, here's the full Debian Sid rootfs tarball. It is a 42MB download and, when uncompressed, it is a 133MB directory tree, but it installs software just fine, with none of the dependency problems of the minbase system posted above.

I installed AbiWord this time. It reminds me of pulling on a thread that unravels the whole sweater; by the time it was done installing, it had installed CUPS (a full printing system) and samba (a full network file server and clients). It tried to install dbus and some other stuff, but dbus failed on post-install configure. I was able to uninstall that easily without much hassle. In the end, I end up with a directory tree that is... 552 MB! Just about the same as for OpenOffice. Hee hee!

EDIT: Interestingly, OpenOffice still has the same weird problems (anything above openoffice.org-core complains of conflicts, missing dependencies, etc). That suggests there are two problems here; OpenOffice and the minbase system.

EDIT2: The minbase system is fine. It is entirely the fault of OpenOffice.org. Once you force-install any of the ooo packages, it breaks subsequent installs. What a mess.
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Last edited by qole; 2008-06-13 at 02:56.
 
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debernardis is offline debernardis
2008-06-13 , 05:17
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#45
This seems to mean that people installing debian today won't be able to get OOO, right? That's a bad thing.

So maybe we better put somewhere a rootfs which already includes OOO, allowing people to use that if they want, until dependencies are fixed on the development of sid.
After installing OOO, abiword, iceweasel and all that jazz, my debian rootfs is reported as 1,3 G - 580 M when tgzipped - too big? If useful, I'll put somewhere to download.
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Last edited by debernardis; 2008-06-13 at 06:21.
 
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2008-06-13 , 13:18
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#46
Originally Posted by debernardis View Post
This seems to mean that people installing debian today won't be able to get OOO, right? That's a bad thing.

So maybe we better put somewhere a rootfs which already includes OOO, allowing people to use that if they want, until dependencies are fixed on the development of sid.
After installing OOO, abiword, iceweasel and all that jazz, my debian rootfs is reported as 1,3 G - 580 M when tgzipped - too big? If useful, I'll put somewhere to download.
Yup it sure is a little too big for me to install chroot debian on my internal 2GB SD card on N810. Too bad though, it would be super great to run Abiword/OOO on N810.
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qole's Avatar
qole is offline qole
2008-06-13 , 22:11
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#47
Originally Posted by debernardis View Post
This seems to mean that people installing debian today won't be able to get OOO, right? That's a bad thing.
Yes, it is a bad thing. I can install it, using dpkg -i -force-conflicts, but then I have to uninstall those things any time I want to install something else. I am really hoping that we're not the only ones trying to install OOO armel, and that they'll discover their goof and fix it. It's purely a packaging problem, once installed it works fine.

Originally Posted by debernardis View Post
After installing OOO, abiword, iceweasel and all that jazz, my debian rootfs is reported as 1,3 G - 580 M when tgzipped - too big? If useful, I'll put somewhere to download.
My basic rootfs populated with abiword, iceweasel, Java plugin, and OOO writer, draw and impress (plus their dependencies) came in at around 660 MB. I ran out of space when compressing it, but the archive was already over 300MB.

Originally Posted by locusf View Post
Yup it sure is a little too big for me to install chroot debian on my internal 2GB SD card on N810. Too bad though, it would be super great to run Abiword/OOO on N810.
I would say that no matter how you do it, you're going to need a big chunk of free space on a Linux-formatted (ext2 or ext3) partition. I would guess that 1 GB would probably be the smallest amount of space that you could have.

Doesn't the N810 have a slot for more memory? I'm sure you're not limited to 2GB of space.
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2008-06-13 , 22:45
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#48
I've been thinking; Our best bet for people who want a specific application would be for one of us to install everything into a clean chroot, and then put it in an .img file and then tar it up so that people can simply download it, untar it, and mount it as a loop device. Penguinbait does this with his KDE debs. That way you wouldn't be required to have a specific file system. You could just un-tar this .img file on any large memory card and then run the mount script. It's a bit tricky to set up, but it is much more straightforward for the end-user.

I just wish I was more than an enthusiastic self-taught wannabe. I just don't have the mad skillz necessary to do this. We need Benson or penguinbait to take an interest in developing this.

Something like this?

Code:
dd if=/dev/zero of=debian.img count=2097152
What's that 2097152? That should give us a gigabyte. Seems that you calculate size like this: <bytes> / 512 = <dd-count>

Code:
mkfs.ext2 debian.img -m 1 -L debian
mkdir /debian
mount -t ext2 debian.img /debian -o loop,noatime
Now the debian.img file is mounted as /debian! Cool, huh?
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Last edited by qole; 2008-06-24 at 04:22.
 
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debernardis is offline debernardis
2008-06-14 , 04:40
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#49
Yes that's the way I have been mounting sid - the next step is to make it compressed (jffs2 ?). I would have done it on a clean sid but there come the ooo dependencies madness and we're stuck unless we choose to make a rootfs package with borked dependencies, not good for apt-getting anything. Alas, by now this is the only good thing to do, right?
 
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2008-06-14 , 05:09
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#50
Originally Posted by debernardis View Post
Yes that's the way I have been mounting sid - the next step is to make it compressed (jffs2 ?).
I seriously thought long and hard about it, and then decided that the Debian chroot programs are slow enough as it is, without adding the whole compressed-filesystem thing. But if you want to play with it, the tools are in the Debian mtd-utils package

Originally Posted by debernardis View Post
I would have done it on a clean sid but there come the ooo dependencies madness and we're stuck unless we choose to make a rootfs package with borked dependencies, not good for apt-getting anything. Alas, by now this is the only good thing to do, right?
I think this is the thing to do for now, if we want to offer a pre-installed ooo-abiword-firefox-java system. I hope and pray this is a temporary problem that will be fixed shortly. The Debian armel team are pretty active, I'm sure they'll find the problem and fix it. Alternately, you can try reporting the bug, but I got lost trying to figure out how to do it.
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Last edited by qole; 2008-06-14 at 05:17.
 
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