Thanks for that. I didn't know of vnc2swf. It seems an exceptional tool for NIT demos.
Would you mind posting a guide for using that, Brontide?

Yes, it might be possible to use this forum and website for this purpose, but then the whole structure has to be changed, and mentality has to change as well. Do you see this happening? I don't.

The Dutch tech forum Gathering of Tweakers (GoT) deals with summarizing valuable information for newcomers in 3 ways:

1) Big threads get closed due to bitrot-related reasons.
2) The first post / topic starter is editted by A) the topic starter B) moderators (quality moderators, BTW).
3) On top is one sticky thread which contains all links to relevant data, howtos about the subject of the subforum. It is like a FAQ. It grows in time. People get credit where credit is due by a thank you and a link to their profile.

People who ask a question asked in the FAQ are directed to the FAQ (with deeplink to the correct entry (HTML)). Sometimes, people are rude in this regard. You know, the elitist attitude. A moderator then edits the post to state this is not done, while trying to keep the peace. Usually they have a short talk via e-mail. Being a moderator is easy. Being a good moderator isn't.

When the big thread is closed after say 100 pages, the new topic starter or moderator updates the first post to reflect some overal conclusions from the big thread. There are 3 problems with this:

1) The moderator has to remain objective.
2) The topic starter might be busy; this really costs some time and courage.
3) Either one of these persons might not be the right person for this task.

While a tech forum pur sang they clearly do their best to manage the huge amounts of data being shared, but you can recognize the situation isn't managable.

Also, really, do not underestimate, it is not a task everyone is able to do. You need to have the quality to invest a lot of time in this daunting task, to summarize information & weed through information, write correct English (in this case the main language), write coherent, remain objective (ability to detach from your personal views), and understand the subject in detail. In other words, someone who fits the position is likely a writer, helpdesker, or journalist. A wiki allows more people to learn this tool of the trade. I've contributed a lot to a wiki a lot before only to see it now bitrotten. Hurts... OTOH, all data was and is public domain. I have similar experiences with journalism and forum. I know I am quite able to fullfil the task, but I am not going to do this anymore for free. I'm doing this for fun.

Instead of doing the above system, one could merge data with a Wiki back and forth.

Personally, I believe Wiki usability would improve if there was a decentralized, GIT-like framework where users are able to clone and merge data easily. Or perhaps, a forum with wiki integration.

Videos and screenshots are very, very good ideas. Remember, most people are visual. For them, it is much more easier to see how something is done, than to read how it is done. While I have a UNIX background I still loved ITS a lot because it allowed me to change some things, and get some simple things working, without having to worry too much. Convenient. I knew I wouldn't blow up my device with those tutorials. Kudos to ITS folks!!

Because of the slow processor on the NIT I would prefer to use remote desktop to make my tutorials, maybe in SB with recordmydesktop. Is this easy to set up?

PS: I like the name Tablet School over the name Tablet Scene.

[offtopic]The tag icon looks like a lock to me.[/offtopic]

I'm going to have to since there are more pitfalls than working solutions out there. That being said it's really not that hard. Barring all of the screwups that I don't have to do not a 2.5 minute video would probably take someone 30 minutes to get right. Less if they weren't trying to make it nice.

When we talk about "newbies" I think a lot of us are talking at cross purposes.

By "newbies", some of us mean people who just want to use the tablets for simple things like browsing the web, while others take "newbies" to mean people who are new to the tablets and may go on to do complex things with them. Those are two totally separate things.

The Tablet Scene site is NOT meant for people new to the tablets who want to learn complex stuff. That's what ITT's newbie forum is for.

Tablet Scene is meant for "casual users", for people who simply don't care about booting from a memory card or changing OSes or anything like that. Tablet Scene is meant for people who use the tablets for their official purpose: surfing the web, checking e-mail, making internet calls etc all of which can be done with the built-in applications.

The contents of ITT is mostly to do with things beyond those built-in functions. ITT is mostly about adding new functions to the tablet, often very obscure functions. Simply filtering ITT won't make it more relevant to casual users, because they don't want most of the functions that ITT covers.

To put it another way: ITT is like a site for people who enjoy messing around with their car engines, while Tablet Scene is for people who just use a car to get them from A to B and don't want to touch the engine.


Yes, this is exactly it.

Tablet Scene is for the kind of people who buy the Nokia tablets as Apple-style consumer devices, while ITT is for the kind of people who buy the Nokia tablets as pocket-sized computers. Both are buying the tablets, but they're buying them with significantly different intentions, and may require significantly different kinds of support.

Going by the history of portable devices, it's the consumer-oriented purchases that will make a device successful. The tablets need more casual users in order to get enough sales to justify their existence, it's not enough to only sell to people who know what a repository is.

Hopefully Tablet Scene will encourage more casual users to get a Nokia tablet, as it makes them realise you don't need to know anything about Linux in order to use the built-in functions. By encouraging more casual users to get a tablet, it will make the tablets more viable, which will benefit hardcore users as well.

I know some people on ITT don't like the idea of the tablets going mainstream (you should see some of the messages I got when I suggested using Canola as the main interface!) but they can stay away from Tablet Scene.



Another important point about videos is that they show something is actually possible, which makes people feel more confident about following the instructions.

The problem is that the NIT line isn't ready for those people.
Nokia's roadmap doesn't project it to be until the next rev of the OS, right?

At this point, it's a development platform, not a consumer device.

I understand that consumers are buying it anyway. Nokia made it too darned pretty.
And I understand the desire to help those people, but you're fighting an uphill battle.

A larger, more vibrant, community helps us all; even if Nokia has dropped the ball when it comes to support. I would agree that maybe some better tie-ins might be in order ( making the newbie form into a link to TS and have and "advanced" area that linked here is also good ).

In the end you can't create a sustainable community on only developers or only users and bigger is almost always better. Bigger means more leverage for new ideas, more potential contributors, and more feedback. If TS saves even one user from early abandonment then it's served it's goal.

Hi,

Me, I used to be a PalmOS user, now using a Dell Axim and moving to the N800.

As for what I plan or do not plan to do with it, who knows as I don't have it yet.

I like to have as much information on a subject and if it is in one place or site, great, if not, it makes it more difficult to determine my needs or wants because the information to help me, is scattered.

I am new here and, just like any other forum, there are cliques and people who help and those who do not, those who do help, are they likely to frequent both sites?

As I said, being new to the NIT and new to linux also, two strikes against me, I plan to try and get as much out of my experience with the NIT as possible.

I just worry that I, and others like me, will miss information because of it being spread amongst two sites instead of one.

I just worry this will not bring more people into the format as I would think this is a big motivation here.

Well, that's my three cents.


David

Harpgliss,

Scattering information is bad, but so is burying information.

On ITT at the moment, all the basic stuff that mainstream users would want to find out about is buried under thread upon thread of far more complex topics that most people simply don't understand.

The tablets have a reputation as being extremely difficult to use and only intended for hackers. That's just not fair, if you only want to use them as advertised they're actually very easy to use, but you wouldn't know that from looking at the technology-heavy topics on ITT.

I did the Internet Tablet School site (link in my signature) totally separately from the maemo Wiki so that casual users would have direct access to the tablet info they needed without having to wade through many pages of advanced topics they don't comprehend. I've had a lot of positive feedback about ITS, so I assume that's an approach people like.



I'm sorry but it most definitely IS ready for those people.

I know this from personal experience, I've seen technophobes who can't cope with PCs magically able to cope with tablets.

Did you read the story of how I got involved in the tablet world in the first place? Here's the link:

http://www.internettablettalk.com/fo...ead.php?t=9674

If you use the tablet for the functions advertised by Nokia it is as easy to use as any mainstream desktop computer, either Windows or Mac or Ubuntu. In fact I'd say it's easier in many ways, as you can see in the story linked to above.

It's not easy to do all the hacking stuff, but it's not easy to do hacking stuff on any computer, and mainstream users don't want to do that kind of thing anyway.


Would you care to provide some kind of link to this roadmap?

Reggie and I e-mailed various people at Nokia about this topic before doing the Tablet Scene site, to ask what their plans were for getting the tablets further into the mainstream. They said they're most definitely trying to make the tablets mainstream products, and would soon be bringing out a new consumer-oriented site aimed at just the audience that Tablet Scene is aimed at.


Try using a Nokia smartphone (which sell approx 60 million units a year, more than all other smartphones combined), then try using a Nokia tablet.

The tablet is by FAR the easier device to use, I mean by a long long way. It's definitely easy enough for ordinary consumers to use. There's a lot of room for improvement, but it's still well over the threshold for ordinary users.


Why?

What built-in consumer-oriented function of the tablets is difficult to use?

Browser, skype, e-mail, all those kinds of things are as easy to use on the tablets as they are on any consumer computing device.

Unfortunately, bigger doesn't mean better. There is no corelation between the two. Lets not assume bigger automagically means better. Its a trap. The signal to noise ratio matters.

There are tons of examples. You can have five developers doing nothing on XFree86, or a few (e.g. Keith Packard) hacking their *** off. You can have a wiki with only four main contributors and still achieve a lot. You can have a wiki with a lot of contributors not leading to much fruitful. Big communies/hierarchies (e.g. forums) can become very chaotic if there are not enough people who manage. Heck, if biggest meant best a certain corporation starting with the M of monopoly would have released the best products past years. Look at history. The biggest rulers like Napoleon have fallen even though they had huge territory. In Napoleon's case it was due to overconfidence/arrogance. Nevermind the other big cultures throughout earth's history. The dinosaurs, the Greeks, the Romans, and so on.

To put it vaguely: big things come and go. Things wither away as new things start. Thats an ecosystem, and you can find this back in a lot of aspects in life. Nature, for example. The role described in my previous post is a manager role. Linus Torvalds is a manager, too. At least, nowadays he is. He's hardly an engineer or developer anymore. He also stood up to develop GIT when it was necessary. A manager, or a leader, if you will.

Some managers who keep track of both forums and merge & compile data back and forth. The people who do this have to be comfortable on both forums, and comfortable doing the task. If it doesn't feel right to be on both or to fullfill this task; don't. After all, you're a volunteer.

The point? Developers are often bad UI designers, and bad managers as well. With only developers you won't get far. You need managers, leaders, shepherds, too.

The proposition consumer-ready or not consumer-ready is in itself a false one because it isn't a yes/no question; it is far more complex than that. Following is a rough take on it. You need users too. New people, like kids, are very honest in their experience. They won't take reasoning like 'it works for me' or 'it will be fixed in the next version' or 'I like it this way and if you don't, write a patch' for granted. They will be honest in their user experiences which is potentially a great source of feedback for developers. Also, they paid for the device, and feel it should work the way they want it to. They usually don't want all kind of addons, but what is there must work. So, the default hardware & software has to be top notch. It isn't, because there are many small and big bugs floating around. OTOH, theres also lots of improvements, too. I feel as it is, there is much work to be done on especially the software level, and I feel this is one of the reasons the NIT is not widely consumer-ready.