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nilchak is offline nilchak
2008-10-27 , 16:21
Posts: 1,097 | Thanked: 650 times | Joined on Nov 2007
#51
Originally Posted by allnameswereout View Post
Flames are useless, and besides that, his only point is: learn from the competitor. He forgets iPhone serves a totally different market segment that Maemo, and I believe the 2 are like water and fire.
Thanks for watering down the flames here in this iPhone comparison again.

But again as a topic of the future of Internet tablets - I think the iPhone and the future NIT should not be that far apart in trems of basic functionality.
I want a tablet with Maemo (or QT) which does all it does today, better graphics rendering, better audio/video codecs handling for Multimedia, better GUI management (finger support etc), ease of development as a platform, a interchangeable SIM for data support (HSPA) and a phone to make a call as well (I am getting a bit tired of the IT/Phone combo to carry always).

That does not sound too far apart from the iPhone - of course it sounds better. And thats what I want.
 
nilchak is offline nilchak
2008-10-27 , 16:30
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#52
Originally Posted by benny1967 View Post
I don't understand.... what do you mean by "allowing full screen focus to the user"?
I think he means when applications run in full screen as against running in the reduced screen mode with the side menus and bottom bars still showing.

Example is Canola (and the others allnames pointed out). Canola when it starts is a full screened app (full screen focus) and stays that way.
On the otherhand MicroB is not a full screened app when it starts. You can make it full screen by pressing the full screen button.
Now a full screen app by design should not need to be minimised to access any function from the side bar menus at all. They should be self contained in its functionality totally.

(ex : MicroB needs to be minimised to access the close button from the top bar, else its not closable (or quitable) in full screen. Canola - which is full screen is closable from full screen mode).


I don't dislike the minimised apps - since after all I can make it full screen by a click of a button - but I do like Canola (and Fennec) interface enough to like the full screen by design choice.
 
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tso is offline tso
2008-10-27 , 16:43
Posts: 4,783 | Thanked: 1,253 times | Joined on Aug 2007 @ norway
#53
Originally Posted by nilchak View Post
(ex : MicroB needs to be minimised to access the close button from the top bar, else its not closable (or quitable) in full screen. Canola - which is full screen is closable from full screen mode).
not entirely correct, hold the cancel/esc/return button for a couple of seconds, or bring down the menu with the menu button and select close->close (all) window(s).

also, the home menu allows one to close a window.

the problem with full screen apps, imo, is that they quickly become "swiss army knifes" or mini-os's, as people want to do more without having to leave their ui.

heh, as one start to think about it, a canola plugin and a hildonized app i fairly short. both integrate into the ui of their "parent".
Last edited by tso; 2008-10-27 at 16:48.
 
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benny1967 is offline benny1967
2008-10-27 , 17:08
Posts: 3,790 | Thanked: 5,718 times | Joined on Mar 2006 @ Vienna, Austria
#54
Originally Posted by nilchak View Post
I think he means when applications run in full screen as against running in the reduced screen mode with the side menus and bottom bars still showing.
[...]
(ex : MicroB needs to be minimised to access the close button from the top bar, else its not closable (or quitable) in full screen. Canola - which is full screen is closable from full screen mode).
Oh my god... So he doesn't like being able to seamlessly switch between applications and access brightness settings while browsing? Not even die-hard iPhone users like this aspect of Apple's UI.
 
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allnameswereout is offline allnameswereout
2008-10-27 , 17:32
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#55
Originally Posted by benny1967 View Post
Oh my god... So he doesn't like being able to seamlessly switch between applications and access brightness settings while browsing? Not even die-hard iPhone users like this aspect of Apple's UI.
No; the assumption is that the user runs one application, and runs this application well. The user is allowed to run an other application, but it is assumed the user prefers focus on the current application. When one is writing a thesis one does not want on the left a radio speaker, on the right some hottie dancing, and on the back kids yelling with 1 kid putting hands before one's eyes. One wants rest, focus, and use the screen one paid for.

If you use Wayfinder/Navicore this is usually the case as well. If you browse with Fennec, too. Coincidentally, there are either I/O applications (video, audio, Carman, Navigation) or heavy touch-based (Fennec, Canola, ...) with touch buttons, gestures and/or sometimes keyboard shortcuts.

Now, if you take MicroB or Modest. With those applications it isn't feasable to use them full screen because the functionality withers. MicroB does not support tabs, and the settings or favourites aren't easily accessible.

BTW, we'd also need some standardization on gestures.

Why I would want to access brightness settings while using an application is beyond my understanding. Its definetely not something I'll be doing daily. Besides, brightness settings should be static, like a good pair of glasses does with sunlight.

Addendum: Keep in mind this topic is about the future of internet tablets. Therefore, you must keep in mind options which have the potential to attract new users while not alienating the current userbase. The touch paradigm is attractive because most people use the visual part of the brain; and therefore icons make more sense than text. (Something one can learn from iPhone.) Seems like someone, besides Google, is adopting some design principles: Purple Labs: $100 Linux 3G phone. Note the colours of the icons, their simplicity, and uniformity. This makes a user feeling comfortable.
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Last edited by allnameswereout; 2008-10-27 at 17:44. Reason: Addendum
 
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tso is offline tso
2008-10-27 , 17:41
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#56
the setting used on my N800 for daylight readability will turn me blind when doing bedtime reading

yes, i know the N810 fixes that with its "fancy" light sensor, but i much prefer the ability to have two full sized SD cards in there, thank you very much

and i have found myself surfing while having a media app running in the background for things like streaming music

or maybe im, browser, rss at the same time...
 

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xxM5xx is offline xxM5xx
2008-10-27 , 17:42
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#57
Originally Posted by nilchak View Post
Thanks for watering down the flames here in this iPhone comparison again.

But again as a topic of the future of Internet tablets - I think the iPhone and the future NIT should not be that far apart in trems of basic functionality.
I want a tablet with Maemo (or QT) which does all it does today, better graphics rendering, better audio/video codecs handling for Multimedia, better GUI management (finger support etc), ease of development as a platform, a interchangeable SIM for data support (HSPA) and a phone to make a call as well (I am getting a bit tired of the IT/Phone combo to carry always).

That does not sound too far apart from the iPhone - of course it sounds better. And thats what I want.
FWIW- I carry a very small cellphone (almost don't know it is in my pocket) and the Nokia N800. I am fortunate because where I am there is an abundance of WiFi clouds. Most everywhere I go I can access the Internet with the N800. I take advantage of this and use free VOIP for calls regardless of where I am. The cell phone is only for those times I MUST perform a call and I am caught between WiFi clouds...and this is very infrequent. I don't need, nor do I want my Nokia NiT to be a phone. I know this isn't a popular view with some folks here but that is how I feel.

If the future of Internet Tablets is one which includes cellular (or is influenced by things "Apple"), I won't be buying one. Certain people here need to cease worshiping the Apple iPhone as something Nokia must move toward. The iPhone is not something to be seen as a standard. Anyone who has been around portable devices for more than two years knows Apple didn't create a revolutionary device, in the iPhone. My Dell Axim did almost everything the IPhone does, and I had my Axims 7 years ago. Before that I had the Casio PPC. Yeah, Microsoft's OS on those was sucky, but my point is the iPhone isn't the breakthrough ignorant people believe it to be.

If the future of the IT is an iPhone then you have ruined what could have been a great thing. The Nokia/Maemo platform will be over as we current know it. I know select others here don't see it that way...but I do. Stop worshiping the iPhone, will you? It isn't justified.
Last edited by xxM5xx; 2008-10-27 at 17:47. Reason: ask to stop worshiping the iPhone, it isn't justified.
 

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allnameswereout is offline allnameswereout
2008-10-27 , 18:04
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#58
Again, nobody is suggesting a clone, and nobody is arguing Apple is some kind of magic inventor who we need to follow. All what is said is that we can learn from competitors, with examples. For example, I mentioned how I liked that the iPhone v1, while not having a GPS, was actually quite usable for navigation using Skyhook Wireless + WiFi (quite frankly it beated the **** out of my N810 with internal GPS and I wasn't happy with that). I named examples of the iPhone (or Mac) paradigm I like, and suggest to consider. Some of which are already being added in Fremantle, BTW. What examples, besides cellphone, you don't like about iPhone? Do you realize HS*PA would be data only; not for phone calls? Also, a slick interface doesn't mean you won't have power with e.g. console; in MacOS X you can configure the OS using the command line. Why wouldn't this be possible in Linux like Ubuntu or Maemo? Are you aware of projects which try to uniform things like /etc configuration files? Freedesktop.org projects? Also abstraction, and its a Good Thing indeed.
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Last edited by allnameswereout; 2008-10-27 at 18:08.
 
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fragos is offline fragos
2008-10-27 , 18:08
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#59
Originally Posted by xxM5xx View Post
FWIW- I carry a very small cellphone (almost don't know it is in my pocket) and the Nokia N800. I am fortunate because where I am there is an abundance of WiFi clouds. Most everywhere I go I can access the Internet with the N800. I take advantage of this and use free VOIP for calls regardless of where I am. The cell phone is only for those times I MUST perform a call and I am caught between WiFi clouds...and this is very infrequent. I don't need, nor do I want my Nokia NiT to be a phone. I know this isn't a popular view with some folks here but that is how I feel.

If the future of Internet Tablets is one which includes cellular (or is influenced by things "Apple"), I won't be buying one. Certain people here need to cease worshiping the Apple iPhone as something Nokia must move toward. The iPhone is not something to be seen as a standard. Anyone who has been around portable devices for more than two years knows Apple didn't create a revolutionary device, in the iPhone. My Dell Axim did almost everything the IPhone does, and I had my Axims 7 years ago. Before that I had the Casio PPC. Yeah, Microsoft's OS on those was sucky, but my point is the iPhone isn't the breakthrough ignorant people believe it to be.

If the future of the IT is an iPhone then you have ruined what could have been a great thing. The Nokia/Maemo platform will be over as we current know it. I know select others here don't see it that way...but I do. Stop worshiping the iPhone, will you? It isn't justified.
We think alike and have similar modes of operation with a small cell phone in my pocket. It can be very destructive to productivity to let the cell phone and email direct our daily lives and processes. In addition, I don't want to give that much control to any service provider. I prefer to manage my own time and select those that I chose to communicate or do business with. Cell providers, including iPhone and many ISP work hard at controlling us for their profit with our benefit taking a back seat.
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benny1967 is offline benny1967
2008-10-27 , 18:13
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#60
Originally Posted by allnameswereout View Post
No; the assumption is that the user runs one application,
this assumption is wrong. right now i happen to run the rss-reader, the email-client, 2 browser windows and 1 IRC chat window.

i have them open because the workflow led me from IRC (watching channel, not participating) to RSS (see whats new while chat is boring) to microB (open link from RSS) to modest (incoming mail while browsing) to another browser window (get URI of a video i want to include in my response mail). this is quite common while i'm on the couch with my N800.

Originally Posted by allnameswereout View Post
Now, if you take MicroB or Modest. With those applications it isn't feasable to use them full screen because the functionality withers. MicroB does not support tabs, and the settings or favourites aren't easily accessible.
again, i don't understand. neither microb nor modest are harder to use in fullscreen mode. why wouldn't settings or favourites be accessible? if i run an application in full screen mode, i never had any loss of functionality. (although i have to admit i very rarely switch to full screen, only sometimes with microb.)


Originally Posted by allnameswereout View Post
BTW, we'd also need some standardization on gestures.
gestures?

Originally Posted by allnameswereout View Post
Why I would want to access brightness settings while using an application is beyond my understanding. Its definetely not something I'll be doing daily. Besides, brightness settings should be static, like a good pair of glasses does with sunlight.
i change brightness settings quite often. keep it low for surfing, high for videos and image viewing... even more often i change volume settings, sometimes only because i feel keyboard clicks mights be too loud for the person next to me. it would be very annoying if i'd have to quit or minimize a running application to do this. (or change my presence settings while typing or whatever)
 

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