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allnameswereout is offline allnameswereout
2008-11-06 , 22:14
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#41
Originally Posted by Texrat View Post
I have never seen that to be true.

Extremists tend to think they aren't... and they are threatened by anyone who doesn't think like them.
Be aware its an abstract definition. Extreme views are views which are far from the status quo according to a majority. It does not mean the person is an extremist. It does not mean the views are wrong either. Some people with extreme views have accomplished quite some changes in the world -- arguably, both 'good' and 'bad' (very relative & subjective terms).

For example, at least in the past, both Stallman and Gates were extremists in their views. They both wanted radical changes.
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tso is offline tso
2008-11-06 , 23:11
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#42
Originally Posted by Karel Jansens View Post
And there's me thinking all this time the bankers being ordered by the socialists to accept bad loans was the cause.

How wrong can you be, eh?
they where? never got that impression. but then i cant say i have looked to much into the issue either.
 
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GeneralAntilles is offline GeneralAntilles
2008-11-06 , 23:22
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#43
Originally Posted by tso View Post
they where? never got that impression. but then i cant say i have looked to much into the issue either.
They were, but whatever anybody tries to tell you, there's plenty of blame to go around for all sides. Messes like these don't get made when somebody is actually trying to prevent them.
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danramos is offline danramos
2008-11-06 , 23:53
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#44
Originally Posted by Karel Jansens View Post
Originally Posted by deadmalc View Post
Think people should just remember the reason for all this ****.
Those complete Bankers not caring about anything other than their bottom line.
Only this time they've been sillier than usual!
And there's me thinking all this time the bankers being ordered by the socialists to accept bad loans was the cause.

How wrong can you be, eh?
What's to say you're not BOTH right? People being deprived of an opportunity to own a home were forcing bankers politically to be more open to giving loans.. and then there's the overly greedy bankers who decided to use this as a great opportunity to do some creative vulture lending practices and screw a little of everyone in every type of way. It's not like all the banks did this.. but a lot of the most greediest certainly appeared quite happy to get involved in the practice of predatory lending and then turned around to blame the people they lended to, whether they were guilty of being irresponsible or not.

The short of it, as I see it: a lot of bankers and investors were greedy and a lot of lenders and borrowers were irresponsible.
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mullf is offline mullf
2008-11-07 , 00:30
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#45
Originally Posted by allnameswereout View Post
The government gave them this power.

I don't call 'copyright' or 'patent' free market, BTW.
What do copyrights and patents have to do with the banking crisis?

The basis for copyrights and patents is Article I, section 8 of the Constitution, by the way.
 
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2008-11-07 , 02:38
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#46
Originally Posted by GeneralAntilles View Post
They were, but whatever anybody tries to tell you, there's plenty of blame to go around for all sides. Messes like these don't get made when somebody is actually trying to prevent them.
Actually they weren't.

The root cause really was greed. And for those who think this hit out of the blue, there were signs not long after the subprime crap started. Some state governors went to the Fed and expressed their concern a few years ago. They were told to butt out by Bush appointees who had allowed relaxed regulations and oversight at his direction.

This debacle really has its roots in the same deregulatory nonsense that brought us the S&L crisis and then Enron. So forget socialists-- they're mostly harmless (that doesn't include tyrants who abuse the title). We have hypercapitalists to thank. And I'm sure they'll act again. As sheepish 2-party voters we seem to enable it.
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Texrat is offline Texrat
2008-11-07 , 02:41
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#47
Originally Posted by danramos View Post
What's to say you're not BOTH right? People being deprived of an opportunity to own a home were forcing bankers politically to be more open to giving loans.
Dan, the sad fact is some people just do not have the means to own and care for a home. Loans should not be crafted for that shortcoming.

The bigger problem was the variable-rate and interest-payment-only loans that let middle class people buy into McMansions beyond their means. Stupidity all around on that one.
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GeneralAntilles is offline GeneralAntilles
2008-11-07 , 02:49
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#48
Originally Posted by Texrat View Post
Actually they weren't.
Define "they". If by "they", you mean "everybody" then that doesn't really follow.

Originally Posted by Texrat View Post
The root cause really was greed. And for those who think this hit out of the blue, there were signs not long after the subprime crap started. Some state governors went to the Fed and expressed their concern a few years ago. They were told to butt out by Bush appointees who had allowed relaxed regulations and oversight at his direction.
Yes, the credit default swap market is a hilariously ridiculous thing.
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qole is offline qole
2008-11-07 , 04:06
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#49
Originally Posted by Texrat View Post
The bigger problem was the variable-rate ... loans ...
My variable rate mortgage has been very good to me over the last few years. I've been getting excellent interest rates, well below prime.

Perhaps you meant something else other than "variable-rate"?
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2008-11-07 , 04:55
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#50
Originally Posted by qole View Post
My variable rate mortgage has been very good to me over the last few years. I've been getting excellent interest rates, well below prime.

Perhaps you meant something else other than "variable-rate"?
No, I did mean variable rate, but I am well aware, qole, that the term covers a broad area. I assumed the context of my post would indicate I was referring to those that grossly reset to points far beyond the homeowner's ability to pay. Sorry.
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