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penguinbait is offline penguinbait
2006-11-03 , 21:50
Posts: 3,096 | Thanked: 1,525 times | Joined on Jan 2006 @ Michigan, USA
#61
Originally Posted by Karel Jansens
In fairness to Nokia: that's what Open Source Software is (among other things obviously) about: Release early, release often. If you use OSS, you're a beta-tester. To put it crudely: Live it or leave it.

I'm not saying you shouldn't criticize the quality of the software (in fact, the more critics the better!), but it's no use complaining about the process. If you really can't live with the way OSS is developed and released, then maybe Windows is more your thing.

Well, I guess because I am a unix administrator I have learned that opensource does not mean buggy. They are selling a product and saying its stable, it should be.
 
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=DC= is offline =DC=
2006-11-03 , 22:01
Posts: 564 | Thanked: 8 times | Joined on Nov 2005 @ Fayetteville, GA
#62
I think it's time to look back and remember what we had before the 770. A lot of people had Palm PDAs, Pocket PCs, Sony Clies, Handsprings, etc. None of those devices were bad at what they were meant for, but you couldn't really expect an OS update to add new features and it was substantially more difficult to program/port apps for these devices. Then we get a huge boost of technology, at an amazingly low price, punched into what we know as the 770. So far, it has the best balance of hardware features for the price. It's powered by one of the most flexible OS platforms than any mobile device before it. Now we have it, and of course we want just as much squeezed from it in relatively the same amount of time as the jump from PDA to 770.

We have to remember that this is still a very new concept than what we came from and there is a lot of work to be done to grow it to the maturity that is needed to appeal to a larger part of the market. The best part about this deal is that anyone can develop new and unique applications for the platform, and it is more liken to programing for a normal computer than other mobile devices.

We all have our issues with the device and especially the software, but I think these and other issues we run into on the way will be solved quickly when we collectively work towards building the software the way we want it.
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lbattraw is offline lbattraw
2006-11-04 , 01:29
Posts: 209 | Thanked: 8 times | Joined on Nov 2005 @ Fishers, Indiana
#63
Originally Posted by =DC=
I think it's time to look back and remember what we had before the 770. A lot of people had Palm PDAs, Pocket PCs, Sony Clies, Handsprings, etc. None of those devices were bad at what they were meant for, but you couldn't really expect an OS update to add new features and it was substantially more difficult to program/port apps for these devices. Then we get a huge boost of technology, at an amazingly low price, punched into what we know as the 770. So far, it has the best balance of hardware features for the price.
(snip)
Absolutely. It's easy to lost sight of the improvements over existing devices. Nokia has really done a pretty good job with the 770, glitches and feature requests aside. I'm personally just happy that they're releasing regular updates; I recall hearing some grumbling about how IT2006 hadn't been updated for some time and here we are-- a new update. I'm not sure why other people are having issues with the browser and so forth as it seems quite solid to me. Perhaps these are some of the people who tried restoring backups? Just a guess, as this might re-introduce instability in the form of old, corrupted data files.

I would hope that I'm not the only one who appreciates all the hard work that has gone into supporting the 770. I've seen the (near complete lack of) support on other PDA-like devices I've purchased, and let me tell you: there is nothing like having the device maker guiding and pushing development. Without it you end up with splinters of effort, duplicated projects, fading interest, and eventual abandonment due to the lack of a community. Nokia may still keep certain things proprietary but they make up for it in the way they've helped to open up and drive the overall process with Sardine, the maemo repository pages, and the Garage space for hosting projects.

Larry
 
keitai is offline keitai
2006-11-04 , 10:40
Posts: 13 | Thanked: 8 times | Joined on Nov 2005
#64
Originally Posted by Rocketman
To me, this update added very little in the way of new features/functionality. Roughly half of the "bullet points" in the release notes stated in a very non-specific way:

-improved this
-improved that
Originally Posted by Rocketman
While I have noticed some general improvements in device stability (ie, my 770 doesn't spontaneously reboot every time I sneeze)
That's the whole point of minor releases: critical bugfixes.
Originally Posted by Rocketman
-Lack of support for bluetooth keyboards (most importantly) and other bluetooth profiles
-Current email client is utterly useless. It is an INTERNET TABLET for peat's sake. It should do email and do it well. The poor UI and workflow of this application makes it next to useless for my needs
-Total lack of support for Java and ancient version of Flash.
-Lack of granular control of power management rules out the 770 for many of my desired uses. At the very least, I would like the ability to turn on/off power management at will.
These are all new features. If you buy a phone without java support, do you expect some firmware update to bring it in? Where did this expectation come from?

The email app clearly sucks hairy goat balls, but that's not something that can be fixed in a bugfix release.

The "opensource/poweruser" aspect is more strange. There is nothing stopping anyone from porting any of the dozen email free apps, java virtual machines, minimoz or webkit, and so on. In fact, it is encouraged. Yet people prefer to wait for manufacturer to spoonfeed them with new releases of their propiertary code?

Lets take a more specific point, you complain about lack of bluetooth keyboard support, yet someone already ported such an app for 770 - Why would it preferrable that it would be shipped as part of firmware update?

* too hard to install? - why not ask the application installing made easier?
* current applet is not good enough? - have you contacted the author of applet about your issues?

I'm just trying to analyze the market case of producing hackable devices, if one does not have the resources of Nokia.
 
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benny1967 is offline benny1967
2006-11-04 , 11:54
Posts: 3,790 | Thanked: 5,718 times | Joined on Mar 2006 @ Vienna, Austria
#65
Originally Posted by Rocketman
To me, this update added very little in the way of new features/functionality. Roughly half of the "bullet points" in the release notes stated in a very non-specific way:

-improved this
-improved that

As an end user, after digging quite a bit, I haven't really noticed much in the way of new functionality.
What did you expect? It's a maintenance release, not IT2007.

Originally Posted by Rocketman
While I recognize that crashes/bugs do sneak into a project of this scope, are our expectations really so low that we are pleased when our device doesn't spontaneously implode once an hour?
Maybe you should be more specific. I don't have crashes except with opera on certain websites, and they are reproduceable. Overall, considering how often I use the thing, it's more stable than my WinXP at the office where I have to reboot twice a day.

Originally Posted by Rocketman
I have still not seen any evidence that the functional deficiencies of the 770 are going to be addressed. Namely:

-Lack of support for bluetooth keyboards (most importantly) and other bluetooth profiles
-Current email client is utterly useless. It is an INTERNET TABLET for peat's sake. It should do email and do it well. The poor UI and workflow of this application makes it next to useless for my needs
-Total lack of support for Java and ancient version of Flash.
-Lack of granular control of power management rules out the 770 for many of my desired uses. At the very least, I would like the ability to turn on/off power management at will.

I have lots more pet peaves with the 770, but those are the big ones.
This is really strange - why would it be a functional deficiency not to have a third input method in addition to the virtual keyboard and handwriting recognition? Even more important: From what I know, there is support for BT-keyboards for those who actually want to carry such a thing around. Thats the point of a open platform: Install the applications you need, don't expect Nokia to package them into the OS-releases.
Also you should be realistic enough to accept that things like "granular control of power management" are probably not considered important features by the vast majority of users.
 
LukeWorm is offline LukeWorm
2006-11-04 , 16:11
Posts: 18 | Thanked: 1 time | Joined on Nov 2005 @ France
#66
I upgraded to this new OS version, restored from backup and reinstalled applications. As last app I installed CPU/Mem/Screenshot applet .
After the final reboot (there were a couple in between, just to make sure) everything loaded as expected, but when attempting to connect to my WLAN, the machine "gasped" and rebooted. Tried again, same result. Since above mentioned app was the last one installed, I uninstalled it and rebooted. Now everything works OK. Weird.
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davidebrady is offline davidebrady
2006-11-04 , 16:21
Posts: 7 | Thanked: 0 times | Joined on Jun 2006
#67
the browser experience is better, still not perfect but...

one thing I have noticed is that the bbc streams from pages such as

Culture Show

now open in the video player, higher quality on these pages than the standard bbs streams (770 still can't playback the higher res news streams though)
 
Peter The Plumber is offline Peter The Plumber
2006-11-04 , 17:03
Posts: 94 | Thanked: 7 times | Joined on Oct 2006 @ Metro Detroit Michigan USA
#68
Originally Posted by benny1967
So I think that while the typical Windows-type consumer should probably learn not to install fresh versions immediately, Nokia on the other hand must begin to realize that they can't go on with this strange mixture of open/closed source.
Oh jeez, I thought I was getting away from that but apparently not :-). I just this last year switched to SUSE from MS. In any case I am going back to the original 2006 release after several days on the new release. I am having issues with the GPE calender event times being changed by themselves. I'm fortunate in that I have access to a second 770; which was to be updated to the updated IT2006 today; when I discovered the calender behavior. The calender running on original IT2006 on the second device does not behave like this.


fanoush
Senior Member

Kernel is different, initfs seems to be a bit different too. I'd suggest to not to use any hack from my page. For kernel update we may need to wait for kernel sources. Last time it took few days.

Hopefully the celender behavior is because of this as well and hopefully can be remedied quickly. In the meantime I have no major *****es against either the OS or the software provided at Maemo. Don't get me wrong, I would *love* to see much more functionality from the programs I use. However; as stated numerous times elsewhere; to have the number of apps we have available in this short amount of time is amazing! Impressed me anyway.
Peter
 
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aflegg is offline aflegg
2006-11-05 , 11:29
Posts: 1,463 | Thanked: 81 times | Joined on Oct 2005 @ UK
#69
Originally Posted by benny1967
What did you expect? It's a maintenance release, not IT2007.
Exactly. TBH, I'm just glad they've released any update to IT 2006. We had a slew of updates to IT 2005 in the weeks following its release, but nothing for IT 2006 for 13 weeks.

We also don't know officially if IT 2007 is planned for release on the 770, I've asked Nokia for a roadmap post-IT 2006, but nothing yet.

I don't have crashes except with opera on certain websites, and they are reproduceable.
Reproducible crashes in Opera on certain sites, you've created Bugzilla entries for them, I hope?

Cheers,

Andrew
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benny1967's Avatar
benny1967 is offline benny1967
2006-11-05 , 11:44
Posts: 3,790 | Thanked: 5,718 times | Joined on Mar 2006 @ Vienna, Austria
#70
Originally Posted by aflegg
Exactly. TBH, I'm just glad they've released any update to IT 2006. We had a slew of updates to IT 2005 in the weeks following its release, but nothing for IT 2006 for 13 weeks.
First I had a similiar impression, but when you think of it: With other projects you often wait much longer for a maintenance release... I think 13 weeks are still a relatively short interval.

Originally Posted by aflegg
Reproducible crashes in Opera on certain sites, you've created Bugzilla entries for them, I hope?
No!!

Well, filing bugs is not one of my strengths; sometimes I drag myself to a projects' bugzilla and try to describe what happened. In this particular case, though: No way. Opera is a proprietary, commercial, closed-source product and I feel no obligation whatsoever to invest a second of my time. I don't work for them, they don't pay me.
Last edited by benny1967; 2006-11-05 at 13:23.
 
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