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krisse is offline krisse
2009-04-30 , 14:33
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#21
If people want to do text tutorials, do them. Contribute to the wiki. There's nothing to stop people doing them right now.

I don't want to do text tutorials for the reasons given. My tutorials would be video-based.

Let's do both, and see which ones people actually use more.


Originally Posted by fms View Post
Well, this is up to the tutorial author to fix. Learning how to make GOOD tutorials does not look like a fundamental problem to me.
The author won't necessarily understand that there IS anything to fix, because they will assume too much prior knowledge, or they will use terms which they understand but others don't.

That's one of the problems on the Wiki, some of the instructions don't really mean much to beginners.

For example if you say "become root" it is meaningless to beginners, but means something to experienced users. If you actually show the same process on a video, it means something to everyone because everyone can see how it works.

Text tutorials also have the problem of language, which wouldn't be the case with videos.

Videos are a good idea because they directly show the actual method of doing something, instead of just describing the method. If you can see something actually done, that means everyone with a similar device can copy it whether they understand the text or not.


When saying that YouTube videos are smeared, jerky, and barely recognizable, I am not blaming you for making them this way. All these qualities are due to the media format itself, not to the author. It is the media format I suggest changing, not the author
I think YouTube is good enough. If you have a look at my YouTube channel I don't think any of these videos are smeared, jerky or barely recognisable:

http://www.youtube.com/tabletschool/


While you can browse through a list of videos, you cannot easily browse inside a video due to its sequential nature (i.e. one frame at a time).
If the tutorial only covers one topic, why would you want to browse inside it one frame at a time?

And if you want to examine a particular video frame you can always press the pause button.

Browsing isn't really that useful in a single tutorial though. For example if there's a tutorial showing how to set up a Gmail account, why would a beginner want to browse through it non-sequentially?


Oh yes, except that the last hop of that connection is WiFi, whose reception varies depending on where in the house you are.
Why would someone buy an internet tablet if they don't have reliable access to at least a 256k connection?


Again, you can obviously have an index of videos, having an index of a single video contents is more problematic.
If a single video only covers one single task then there's not really any need for an index within it. These videos would only be a few minutes long each.

If you have separate tasks you would do them as separate videos.


Anyways, I am not persuaded that one should use videos for computer tutorials, especially considering the quality limitations of these Flash videos. Maybe go with animated images aka "screencasts"?
Take a look at my Youtube channel. None of these have problems with quality.

And if the new devices have TV Out, quality would be even better because the video would be being recorded directly from the device.
Last edited by krisse; 2009-04-30 at 14:36.
 
fms is offline fms
2009-04-30 , 15:12
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#22
Originally Posted by krisse View Post
Take a look at my Youtube channel. None of these have problems with quality.
I looked at your videos and found exactly what I expected to find - they are normal web quality videos. Again, it is not that they have problems with quality relative to other web videos. The problem is that what is known as "web quality video" is barely usable and uncomfortable to look at. For reference, compare it with a normal NTSC or PAL TV broadcast by scaling your web video to fill a 32" display.
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jolouis is offline jolouis
2009-04-30 , 18:33
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#23
Maybe a poll would be in order? I mean debating back and forth video VS text is one thing (personally I still think the methodolgy I proposed makes the most sense as you get the best of both worlds plus some good feedback mechanisms, but again that's just me... I don't pretend to know best), but at the end of they day it comes down to the community in two ways: 1) Newbies are going to know best which way they prefer to learn and 2) Community members, who are going to presumably be the ones contributing these tutorials, are going to know what's most viable for them to be effective. As the thread has shown, there are a few options for doing good clear quality screen capture/videos; these options of course require more effort and introduce a larger possibility for discrepencies/differences in quality/format/etc than straight text... as well as more difficulty in maintenance (i.e. it's easier to update part of a written tutorial to accommodate for changes in OS/software; with video, you need two different videos). Anyways, again either way I think it should be put to poll and let the masses decide which way is best; after all, that's the whole point of this Maemo community thing right? (unless there's a "communist" dictator lurking around the corner that I'm not aware of!)
 
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krisse is offline krisse
2009-04-30 , 19:00
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#24
Maybe a poll would be in order?
No, because we're not being forced to choose between two things.

If people want to do text and diagrams they can already do so on the Wiki.

What I'm proposing is an alternative and separate set of tutorials, using video only.

If we have both methods in use, then we would have the best of both worlds.


Anyways, again either way I think it should be put to poll and let the masses decide which way is best
Which masses are you talking about?

The point of my tutorials would be to appeal to beginners who don't currently use Maemo.

The only people who would vote in a poll would be those who already use Maemo, i.e. not the people that the videos would be aimed at.


Originally Posted by fms View Post
I looked at your videos and found exactly what I expected to find - they are normal web quality videos. The problem is that what is known as "web quality video" is barely usable and uncomfortable to look at.
Which video specifically is "barely usable"?



Again, it is not that they have problems with quality relative to other web videos. For reference, compare it with a normal NTSC or PAL TV broadcast by scaling your web video to fill a 32" display.
Why on earth would you want to watch these videos at full scale on a 32" screen?

If you can't see the text in the video in its native size, then you can't possibly see the text on an internet tablet either.
Last edited by krisse; 2009-04-30 at 19:07.
 

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GeneralAntilles is offline GeneralAntilles
2009-04-30 , 19:05
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#25
Originally Posted by krisse View Post
The author won't necessarily understand that there IS anything to fix, because they will assume too much prior knowledge, or they will use terms which they understand but others don't.

That's one of the problems on the Wiki, some of the instructions don't really mean much to beginners.
You seem to be implying that this is not possible to do in a video (which I don't agree with), and that this is unfixable in a wiki (which I also don't agree with).

Originally Posted by krisse View Post
For example if you say "become root" it is meaningless to beginners, but means something to experienced users. If you actually show the same process on a video, it means something to everyone because everyone can see how it works.
That's why articles link to the the root access article when they mention root access. None of the problems you have with the wiki are insurmountable, and I can't say I love the idea of people running off to create duplicate tutorials elsewhere on the site.

Why not instead of doing your own little thing over there come out and help with the wiki over here. There's no need for the videos to be separate. Why not, instead, take wiki articles and create videos to go with them? Then we can embed a link to the video on YouTube on wherever at the top of every page that has one.

Then you've got a text method for people that prefer it and a video method for people who prefer that, and if the videographer is following along with they text, they may be able to spot those missing or assumed steps and improve the text article while they're creating a video.

Or if somebody creates a video, then they simply slap it on a new page and either add text steps themselves or wait for somebody else to do it.

This combines the documentation efforts and keeps them in a single location. A win-win for everybody.
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Jaffa is offline Jaffa
2009-04-30 , 19:42
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#26
Originally Posted by krisse View Post
No, because we're not being forced to choose between two things.

If people want to do text and diagrams they can already do so on the Wiki.

What I'm proposing is an alternative and separate set of tutorials, using video only.
I suppose one important question is are you suggesting that this be done, or are you looking for support for something you want to (re-)start doing?

If you want to start creating tutorials, app review videos etc. again then that's fantastic.

I like the idea of a downloads-style "fresh"/"hot" and potentially voting. Suggested approach:
  • Videos get created and put on YouTube, in a particular channel (as you did with tablet school)
  • A wiki page gets created in a particular category, embedding the video with a boilerplate template.
  • Anyone can come along and comment on the video (on the "discussion" page)
  • Anyone can come along and transcribe the video into text.
  • We can do some simple RSS feeds/MediaWiki plugins for pulling out the highest rated/most viewed/newest videos on the channel, and create an index page to the wiki category.

Is this a compromise which destroys the concept, or a tangible proposition we can get around which doesn't require developing a whole new infrastructure (or, god forbid, a new midgard module ;-))

The only people who would vote in a poll would be those who already use Maemo, i.e. not the people that the videos would be aimed at.
Are you thinking that the Maemo 5 lead device might be popular and this might be needed? Earlier, though, you said that video wasn't a problem because all Maemo users would have broadband. If it's for the large influx of users expected with the Maemo 5 devices, that may not hold true much longer.
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sunnydips is offline sunnydips
2009-05-01 , 09:22
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#27
Could somebody post a video explaining how to set my mytube app to play porntube instead?
 
krisse's Avatar
krisse is offline krisse
2009-05-01 , 15:16
Posts: 1,540 | Thanked: 1,045 times | Joined on Feb 2007
#28
Okay, well, obviously my suggestion isn't popular with everyone. :-)

How about this as an alternative proposal?

-Maemo School section using the same basic format as the Downloads section, including a category-based index (with different categories to downloads of course).

-Anyone can contribute a tutorial on any Maemo topic, or on topics related to hardware which runs the Maemo platform.

-Tutorials can be using any method (video, text, animations) but it must be viewable on the website, i.e. it must not require a download or any link clicking.

-All tutorials subject to quality checking and feedback process from Maemo School admins. They can reject a tutorial if they want to, but if they do so they must give instructions on how the tutorial could be made acceptable for inclusion.

-Tutorials covering the same topic from different angles could be merged onto one page by admins (for example a video tutorial could be embedded with a text tutorial covering the same topic)

-Choice of school admin(s) would have to be done by some kind of community process.

...I think that would be simpler and less controversial, but the quality control process could help it avoid the problems the wiki has had in being unstructured and inconsistent.

Those who want unfiltered help could still use the wiki, while those who want a more filtered experience could use the Maemo School section.
Last edited by krisse; 2009-05-01 at 15:19.
 
fms is offline fms
2009-05-01 , 15:32
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#29
Originally Posted by krisse View Post
-Maemo School section using the same basic format as the Downloads section, including a category-based index (with different categories to downloads of course).
Basically agree, although you probably do not need the index to be as elaborate as the one in Downloads.

-Choice of school admin(s) would have to be done by some kind of community process.
At this point, I think it is more practical to ask for volunteers, and leave emergency moderation privileges to the Council and/or yourself.

I 100% agree on the rest.
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2009-05-01 , 15:37
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#30
I can do the admin if people are okay with that. I'd be applying similar rules to what I used on the tablet school site.

Obviously if it takes off, or if there's disagreement over something, it would be useful to have more than one admin, but I can certainly do it to start with.
 

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