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qole is offline qole
2009-05-06 , 16:43
Moderator | Posts: 7,109 | Thanked: 8,820 times | Joined on Oct 2007 @ Vancouver, BC, Canada
#41
Originally Posted by qgil View Post
Qole, you are an ... illustrated person
I don't have any tattoos, if that's what you mean....

I actually don't know what that means.

Originally Posted by qgil View Post
Can you please detail what is hostile here?
I guess it is as I said above, the whole bugzilla process feels like it is against the bug reporter. "You found a bug? I don't see a bug. You sure you found a bug? Prove it!"

When I report problems to developers here in the forums, the responses from the developers are mostly friendly, and generally, the assumption is that the report is true unless proven false. In the bug system, it is the other way around. It is that way by design.

Originally Posted by qgil View Post
The "bugcatcher" is called Niels aka X-Fade. He is the webmaster of maemo.org, and the first community guy that was funded by Nokia to work full time for all of you. He works a lot and is very responsible. He actually does much more than what he is asked to do.
Yes, nothing against Niels. It is the system that is broken. The system treats the reporter like the suspect.

The bugzilla has improved, yes, thanks to pressure from people like sjgadsby, and hiring a bugmaster, but all my experiences with it have been poor.

But Qole you are a council member and therefore you should be a reference bridging between the community and the maemo.org team (made by comunity members, let me insist).
Well, I'm not sure who voted me onto the Council (see, that's the problem with the STV system; you get unintended side effects like me), but I'm not going to pretend to like things about maemo.org just because I'm a council member.
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Last edited by qole; 2009-05-06 at 16:57.
 
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GeneralAntilles is offline GeneralAntilles
2009-05-06 , 17:39
Posts: 5,478 | Thanked: 5,222 times | Joined on Jan 2006 @ St. Petersburg, FL
#42
Originally Posted by qole View Post
I guess it is as I said above, the whole bugzilla process feels like it is against the bug reporter. "You found a bug? I don't see a bug. You sure you found a bug? Prove it!"
Bugzilla is not a support system. Bug reports need to be accurate, clear and complete for engineers to have any chance of reproducing bugs and fixing them. Otherwise you end up wasting the reporter's time and the engineer's time playing back-and-forth trying to figure out all of the information that should've been included in the initial bug report (of course, this is why you have you have triagers, to make sure the report is clear, complete and reproducible before it's sent to the engineers).

If support is what you're after then Bugzilla is not where you should be. Please see these forums, the mailing lists or IRC for support channels.

Originally Posted by qole View Post
It is that way by design.
Of course it's that way by design, because if you setup Bugzilla as a support system then everything falls to pieces.
Engineers aren't support staff. They're not paid for it, their workflow isn't setup for it, and they're often not qualified for it.

Originally Posted by qole View Post
Yes, nothing against Niels. It is the system that is broken. The system treats the reporter like the suspect.
No, you're just coming to Bugzilla for the wrong reasons. If you want to be a user, then you have to be a user. Users don't use bug trackers, they go through the expected support channels.

When, however, you decide that you want to work with the cogs in the machine your role changes, and it's expected that when your role changes the expectations placed upon you will change and the responsibilities will change. One of the responsibilities of being a bug reporter is that you're expected to provide a lot of detailed information about the issue you're experiencing. One of the responsibilities of being a council member is to not encourage discord when it's neither merited nor deserved.

Originally Posted by qole View Post
The bugzilla has improved, yes, thanks to pressure from people like sjgadsby, and hiring a bugmaster, but all my experiences with it have been poor.
I'm not saying Bugzilla is perfect, nor that work is done on improving it (a guided submission form has been one of my pet bugs for a while), but you seem to want to change Bugzilla's role into something it's not suited for, wasn't designed for and shouln't try to fill.

Originally Posted by qole View Post
Well, I'm not sure who voted me onto the Council (see, that's the problem with the STV system; you get unintended side effects like me), but I'm not going to pretend to like things about maemo.org just because I'm a council member.
What Quim was referring to had nothing to do with aspects of maemo.org, it had to do with not undeservedly denigrating maemo.org staff members and sewing the seeds of discord in the community. You should've checked the bug to be sure of the situation instead of assuming the leveled complaint was accurate (turns out it was intended as a joke, but I'm fairly certain you were operating as if it were a serious complaint). There was no hostility in the bug, and the bug process was proceeding as usual (whether or not you agree with that process is a completely separate issue).
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qole is offline qole
2009-05-06 , 17:48
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#43
Originally Posted by GeneralAntilles View Post
One of the responsibilities of being a council member is to not encourage discord when it's neither merited nor deserved.
I agree. Let's work on that together, shall we?
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Texrat's Avatar
Texrat is offline Texrat
2009-05-06 , 17:57
Posts: 11,700 | Thanked: 10,045 times | Joined on Jun 2006 @ North Texas, USA
#44
Back on topic: I just noticed MY avatar doesn't say anything anymore. At first I was disturbed (more than usual) but I realize the cropped version is more mysterious. Cool. I can work with that.

Back off topic: qole, you sneaky, snarky devil...
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penguinbait is offline penguinbait
2009-05-06 , 18:18
Posts: 3,096 | Thanked: 1,525 times | Joined on Jan 2006 @ Michigan, USA
#45
Originally Posted by jandmdickerson View Post
I was merely adding humor to my post. The bugcatcher has always been professional and helpful to me. My bad-- I forgot to use my humor icon

I took it as qole was being playful and fun also. This is why I have come here for 2 years--it is fun. On a side note, I have also learned to understand GA. If you read his words and hear Spock (non-emotional) speaking the words in your mind then his comments will seems completely polite and helpful and never short. But beware it may be Pon Far time
There was no thanks button, so here

Thanks,
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To all my Maemo friends. I will no longer be monitoring any of my threads here on a regular basis. I am no longer supporting anything I did under maemo at maemo.org. If you need some help with something you can reach me at tablethacker.com or www.facebook.com/penguinbait. I have disabled my PM's here, and removed myself from Council email and Community mailing list. There has been some fun times, see you around.
 
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penguinbait is offline penguinbait
2009-05-06 , 18:18
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#46
Originally Posted by jandmdickerson View Post
Wow I thought I had good knowledge of english, but I had never heard of an "illustrated person" does this mean well decorated or adorned?

I don't think is a common american english expression. Please correct me if I am wrong.
Perhaps he was referring to the avatar, which is drawn, is that a beaver, or is that what a qole looks like
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To all my Maemo friends. I will no longer be monitoring any of my threads here on a regular basis. I am no longer supporting anything I did under maemo at maemo.org. If you need some help with something you can reach me at tablethacker.com or www.facebook.com/penguinbait. I have disabled my PM's here, and removed myself from Council email and Community mailing list. There has been some fun times, see you around.
 
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penguinbait is offline penguinbait
2009-05-06 , 18:25
Posts: 3,096 | Thanked: 1,525 times | Joined on Jan 2006 @ Michigan, USA
#47
Originally Posted by qole View Post
I don't have any tattoos, if that's what you mean....

I actually don't know what that means.



I guess it is as I said above, the whole bugzilla process feels like it is against the bug reporter. "You found a bug? I don't see a bug. You sure you found a bug? Prove it!"

When I report problems to developers here in the forums, the responses from the developers are mostly friendly, and generally, the assumption is that the report is true unless proven false. In the bug system, it is the other way around. It is that way by design.



Yes, nothing against Niels. It is the system that is broken. The system treats the reporter like the suspect.

The bugzilla has improved, yes, thanks to pressure from people like sjgadsby, and hiring a bugmaster, but all my experiences with it have been poor.

Well, I'm not sure who voted me onto the Council (see, that's the problem with the STV system; you get unintended side effects like me), but I'm not going to pretend to like things about maemo.org just because I'm a council member.
This is why the community voted for you and wants you there. To me this puts you in the best position to be able to provide unbiased input.

Keep up the great work, we need your honest input and community support.
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To all my Maemo friends. I will no longer be monitoring any of my threads here on a regular basis. I am no longer supporting anything I did under maemo at maemo.org. If you need some help with something you can reach me at tablethacker.com or www.facebook.com/penguinbait. I have disabled my PM's here, and removed myself from Council email and Community mailing list. There has been some fun times, see you around.
 
sjgadsby is offline sjgadsby
2009-05-06 , 18:49
Posts: 5,335 | Thanked: 8,187 times | Joined on Mar 2007 @ Pennsylvania, USA
#48
Originally Posted by qole View Post
I actually don't know what that means.
I believe the word qgil was looking for is "illustrious".
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qole's Avatar
qole is offline qole
2009-05-06 , 19:03
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#49
Originally Posted by sjgadsby View Post
I believe the word qgil was looking for is "illustrious".
No, that couldn't be it. That makes no sense in context. Neither does "Illiterate," since he said I was educated. Hmm. "Illegitimate?" No, I was born in wedlock. "Illiberal," "illusive" or "illusory"? Perhaps. "Ill-mannered?" Yes, I am, but was that what he meant?

Just to wander back on-topic for a brief moment:

I cropped and shrank my avatar (drawn by Elia, by the way) to keep as much detail as possible in the tiny space available. I didn't want to just shrink the picture down.

Because then the illustration would be illegible.
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Texrat is offline Texrat
2009-05-06 , 19:10
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#50
Now you're just being silly.
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