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2009-05-16
, 03:29
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#2
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No.
They've already got a browser team (getting a new one is big money), and they've got plans for XUL.
Really, though, the differences between the two engines are less than you think (and as a side note, I've discovered that the S60 browser sucks).
They've already got a browser team (getting a new one is big money), and they've got plans for XUL.
Really, though, the differences between the two engines are less than you think (and as a side note, I've discovered that the S60 browser sucks).
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Ryan Abel
Ryan Abel
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2009-05-16
, 03:42
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@ California and Virginia
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#3
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Mobile is dominated by webkit and opera. Desktop is dominated by Firefox (XUL) and Internet Explorer. Really, they are basically all the same. It is just that webkit is lighter, so it runs better on phones (IMO). However, the new processors like the OMAP3 are so beastly, that it really won't make a difference like it does on the N810.
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2009-05-16
, 03:43
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#4
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Originally Posted by GeneralAntilles
Well, what would be the relative merits of using Webkit and Mozilla assuming Maemo was starting from scratch?
They've already got a browser team (getting a new one is big money)
(and as a side note, I've discovered that the S60 browser sucks).
But in any case, discussing S60 is all a red herring: I'm not suggesting that Maemo should use the S60 browser, I'm asking whether Maemo's default browser should use the Webkit engine.
Even if you hate Webkit, it looks like it will become the most commonly used browser engine in the mobile internet world, and possibly the most commonly used on the internet in general. If that happens a lot of sites may be written with Webkit-based browsers in mind. Surely that warrants at least a little bit of our attention when discussing Maemo's future?
It's not even a quality issue necessarily. Windows might suck but you'd be crazy to ignore it if you're a software publisher. :-)
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2009-05-16
, 06:42
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@ Vancouver, BC, Canada
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#5
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(note: specuation based only on public knowledge follows)
I really hope the 'beastly' Cortex A8 can run Fennec well enough, and the Mozilla team (with the help of Nokia thru things like the upcoming Danish hackfest) can bang it into usable shape in short order. I can't help wondering if the browser is one of the hold-ups for Fremantle's final release...
My biggest beef with all the engines out there is that nobody's bothered to make an optimized ARM Javascript engine. All the optimization has happened on the x86 platform.
krisse: Do you think Opera isn't a contender for the mobile space any more?
I really hope the 'beastly' Cortex A8 can run Fennec well enough, and the Mozilla team (with the help of Nokia thru things like the upcoming Danish hackfest) can bang it into usable shape in short order. I can't help wondering if the browser is one of the hold-ups for Fremantle's final release...
My biggest beef with all the engines out there is that nobody's bothered to make an optimized ARM Javascript engine. All the optimization has happened on the x86 platform.
krisse: Do you think Opera isn't a contender for the mobile space any more?
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2009-05-16
, 07:08
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#6
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Originally Posted by qole
https://lists.webkit.org/pipermail/w...il/007253.html
My biggest beef with all the engines out there is that nobody's bothered to make an optimized ARM Javascript engine. All the optimization has happened on the x86 platform.
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2009-05-16
, 08:05
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@ Bulgaria
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#7
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As I've said it before: an update to FF engine and ARM JIT will do wonders. + The WebKitGtk is still some steps away from being a complete WebKit engine like its brother backends in Mac/Windows. Even the QT version is still not completely up to date, though much better. Of course all that can be fixed if a company wants to.
FF on the other hand is a complete engine with a lot of potential because of its easy extendability with XUL and Javascript.
So no from me.
FF on the other hand is a complete engine with a lot of potential because of its easy extendability with XUL and Javascript.
So no from me.
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2009-05-16
, 08:08
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#8
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Originally Posted by krisse
I think you're a little off on that one. Probably WebKit only sites will target only iPhone and S60. WM6.5 is coming out in some months and it features
Even if you hate Webkit, it looks like it will become the most commonly used browser engine in the mobile internet world, and possibly the most commonly used on the internet in general. If that happens a lot of sites may be written with Webkit-based browsers in mind. Surely that warrants at least a little bit of our attention when discussing Maemo's future?
It's not even a quality issue necessarily. Windows might suck but you'd be crazy to ignore it if you're a software publisher. :-)
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Technically, there are three determinate states the cat could be in: Alive, Dead, and Bloody Furious.
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2009-05-16
, 08:09
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#9
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Originally Posted by krisse
The sum of these is about how much compared to PC + WM?
-Default browser on all Nokia Symbian S60 devices
-Just about to become default browser on all Nokia Series 40 devices
-Default browser on all Samsung Symbian S60 devices
-Default browser on all Sony Ericsson Symbian S60 devices
-Default browser on iPhone and iPod Touch
-Default browser on Macintosh computers
-Core of Google's Chrome browser
I'm not against WebKit though. I'm for reality and sensibility.
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Technically, there are three determinate states the cat could be in: Alive, Dead, and Bloody Furious.
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2009-05-16
, 14:21
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#10
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Originally Posted by krisse
Not a huge difference, really. WebKit is a cleaner and lighter codebase but recent releases of both engines perform very similarly, and WebKit lacks features that Nokia needs (XUL and such).
Well, what would be the relative merits of using Webkit and Mozilla assuming Maemo was starting from scratch?
Either way, we aint starting from scratch and replacing the whole browser team is an expensive proposition.
Besides, think of the money Nokia is putting into MicroB as an investment in Mozilla's mobile side. Competition is good. Do you really think we'd be where we are with JS engines without it?
Originally Posted by krisse
Yes, I own a 5800. It's slower and much less usable than MicroB (although some of this is attributable to the poor interface).
I don't think it's that bad! :-) Browsing on my 5800 is pretty much like browsing on my N810, same sort of speed, same sort of page rendering abilities. Did you actually try the browser on a 5800? It's a lot faster and a lot easier to use than it was on previous S60 models.
Originally Posted by krisse
I don't hate WebKit (in fact, I'm a fan of it and really don't care all that much for FireFox), and as for most common, who cares? IE is the most commonly used browser, should we consider that one too?
Even if you hate Webkit, it looks like it will become the most commonly used browser engine in the mobile internet world, and possibly the most commonly used on the internet in general.
Originally Posted by krisse
What's to write for for WebKit? CSS text shadows? This isn't the era of IE where the developer writes in a bunch of proprietary features to their rendering engine. We have standards (and browsers which largely comply with them), these days it really doesn't matter much which engine you use. The fatal assumption you're making is that anybody is going to overcome IE in the short term.
If that happens a lot of sites may be written with Webkit-based browsers in mind. Surely that warrants at least a little bit of our attention when discussing Maemo's future?
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Ryan Abel
Ryan Abel
-Default browser on all Nokia Symbian S60 devices
-Just about to become default browser on all Nokia Series 40 devices
-Default browser on all Samsung Symbian S60 devices
-Default browser on all Sony Ericsson Symbian S60 devices
-Default browser on iPhone and iPod Touch
-Default browser on Macintosh computers
-Core of Google's Chrome browser
In the mobile world at least, it looks like Webkit is now unstoppable. The majority of phones (including high end, mid range and low end) will probably be using Webkit in one or two years time. If you factor in the ubiquity of mobile devices, Webkit could well become the most used browser in the world.
Obviously desktop computing is totally different, that's a race between Internet Explorer and Mozilla Firefox.
Should Maemo adopt Webkit for its default browser? I'm not sure what to think because Maemo is so in-between being a desktop computer and a mobile device.
But maybe we should have a discussion about the relative merits of Maemo switching to a default browser powered by Webkit?
Last edited by krisse; 2009-05-16 at 03:25.