gerbick
2009-05-24 , 02:46
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#81
Originally Posted by GeneralAntilles View Post
Ah, excellent! Then I can save a lot of time trying to respond to your confused post.
I expected more. Oh well... back to your cave.
 
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2009-05-24 , 03:26
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#82
Originally Posted by krisse View Post
Quite frankly, the grip network operators have over American phone hardware is the fault of Americans themselves. Americans who are worried about network operators crippling hardware should put their money where their mouth is instead of playing the helpless victim.
The finger-pointing game is fun but it goes quickly circular. The FCC is to blame for allowing the carrier anticompetiveness to continue. The federal leadership is to blame for allowing the FCC to do so. The American voters are to blame for voting in that leadership. Etc etc etc.

Personally I blame LG, Samsung and Motorola. Nokia made a big, serious effort to turn the US market on its head and those 3, rather than recognizing the longterm benefit and joining in, chose to go for the quick bucks and take the market share Nokia "gave up".

We see where that got Moto.
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fms is offline fms
2009-05-24 , 06:22
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#83
Originally Posted by Texrat View Post
The finger-pointing game is fun but it goes quickly circular. The FCC is to blame for allowing the carrier anticompetiveness to continue. The federal leadership is to blame for allowing the FCC to do so. The American voters are to blame for voting in that leadership. Etc etc etc
Not really. The blaming game stops at the consumers getting crippled subsidized handsets (a committing themselves to contracts) instead of just buying hardware onl their own. The subsidized model works relatively well with generic phones used "just to call people" but it utterly fails smartphone users, narrowing their choice of options to 2-3 [crippled] models offered by their network operator.
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2009-05-24 , 19:12
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#84
Originally Posted by fms View Post
Not really. The blaming game stops at the consumers getting crippled subsidized handsets (a committing themselves to contracts) instead of just buying hardware onl their own. The subsidized model works relatively well with generic phones used "just to call people" but it utterly fails smartphone users, narrowing their choice of options to 2-3 [crippled] models offered by their network operator.
Unfortunately the American markets are not as densely populated as European or Asian markets. On top of that we use 3 totally different network technologies that don't always overlap. Add to that equation the fact that two of the network technologies are proprietary and the usage rights to one of these technologies is controlled by a single handset manufacturer.

In many instances geography determines what handset is used and customer choice is rather limited.

...besides, the horse is out of the barn already.

The change to an un-subsidized phone for some would require an additional $400 up front...

A $200 Early Termination Fee plus a $200 dollar premium for the equipment itself.
 

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2009-05-24 , 20:44
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#85
Originally Posted by fms View Post
Not really. The blaming game stops at the consumers getting crippled subsidized handsets (a committing themselves to contracts) instead of just buying hardware onl their own. The subsidized model works relatively well with generic phones used "just to call people" but it utterly fails smartphone users, narrowing their choice of options to 2-3 [crippled] models offered by their network operator.
I stand by my assessment. Nokia tried to change the game and other manufacturers torpedoed the effort... despite the fact that they would have benefitted in the long run. Nokia's move was the last best chance to change the model unless US lawmakers finally do their jobs.

As long as the subsidized model dominates in the US, many buyers will opt for the "free" or cheap phone. It's seen as buying on credit with no apparent interest-- although we all know the cost is ultimately higher.
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fms is offline fms
2009-05-24 , 21:11
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#86
Originally Posted by YoDude View Post
Unfortunately the American markets are not as densely populated as European or Asian markets.
Really? Check this table:

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0933563.html

It indicates that approximately 86% (262,700,000) of the US population had cell phones in 2008. Remove a few people having more than one phone, and you still get a sizable number.

On top of that we use 3 totally different network technologies that don't always overlap.
You have got GSM in several bands (usually covered by a multi-band GSM phone) and CDMA (that can be largely ignored).

Add to that equation the fact that two of the network technologies are proprietary and the usage rights to one of these technologies is controlled by a single handset manufacturer.
The standard answer here is "screw them". You have got several nationwide GSM networks, use them, ignore proprietary stuff, and it will eventually die off.

The change to an un-subsidized phone for some would require an additional $400 up front... A $200 Early Termination Fee plus a $200 dollar premium for the equipment itself.
Well, what can I say? Either wait until the end of your contract or use any loophole you can find with Google.
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gerbick
2009-05-24 , 21:22
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#87
Originally Posted by fms View Post
Really? Check this table:

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0933563.html

It indicates that approximately 86% (262,700,000) of the US population had cell phones in 2008. Remove a few people having more than one phone, and you still get a sizable number.
I think he meant that there is a lot more room/space between the people in the US versus other countries. We're not as tightly packed together in the US as say... Britain or Hong Kong.
 

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2009-05-24 , 21:28
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#88
Originally Posted by fms View Post
You have got GSM in several bands (usually covered by a multi-band GSM phone) and CDMA (that can be largely ignored).
Largely ignored???

The largest provider, Verizon, runs on CDMA.

Originally Posted by fms View Post
The standard answer here is "screw them". You have got several nationwide GSM networks, use them, ignore proprietary stuff, and it will eventually die off.
Sounds great in theory, but ignores far too many inertial factors. If it was that simple it would have happened long ago... and Nokia would not have needed cooperation from Moto and the rest when the big US provider-cracking attempt was made.
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Last edited by Texrat; 2009-05-24 at 21:31.
 

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2009-05-24 , 21:38
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#89
Originally Posted by fms View Post
It indicates that approximately 86% (262,700,000) of the US population had cell phones in 2008. Remove a few people having more than one phone, and you still get a sizable number.
... even more OT: i wasn't aware of these figures. in austria (pop.: 8,316,487), there are ~10 million SIM cards in active use, which means a rate of over 120%.

i hadn't expected the gap to be so significant between the USA and a small european country.
 
attila77 is offline attila77
2009-05-24 , 22:22
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#90
Originally Posted by benny1967 View Post
... even more OT: i wasn't aware of these figures. in austria (pop.: 8,316,487), there are ~10 million SIM cards in active use, which means a rate of over 120%.

i hadn't expected the gap to be so significant between the USA and a small european country.
There are even odder cases if look at smaller countries - Montenegro (pop: 650,000) boasts a 185% rate.
 
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