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mullf is offline mullf
2009-05-25 , 22:26
Posts: 610 | Thanked: 391 times | Joined on Feb 2006 @ DC, USA
#271
Originally Posted by Texrat View Post
Whoa whoa WHOA! Bad logic alert.
No kidding. If anything different than is available today would be wanted by consumers, it would have been made already. So let's not consider making anything new.
 
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Benson is offline Benson
2009-05-25 , 22:27
Posts: 4,930 | Thanked: 2,272 times | Joined on Oct 2007
#272
Originally Posted by Jaffa View Post
Don't forget, Rover is 18mm thick: that's about half a centimetre more than an N810. With the smaller width & height it's going to properly look like a brick (as my colleagues' N95s and Sony Ericsson X1 do).
Yeah, that's one of the few things I like about it.

Seriously, that's a hair thinner than my N810, because she always wears a 3.6Ah battery. It may look a bit brickish (not that there's anything wrong with that), but after it comes out, I think I'm going to strangle the first person who complains it's too thick for their pockets.
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johnkzin is offline johnkzin
2009-05-25 , 22:28
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#273
Originally Posted by GeraldKo View Post
The taskbar on the side is nearly irrelevant since the issue is how big the app is in FULL Screen Mode.
No, that is not the issue.

The issue is how big the app is in whatever mode MOST USERS are/will be using it in.

I, for one, rarely used full screen mode (and what Peter says makes _some_ sense to me). Lots of posters in this thread sound like they often used full screen mode. Peter is implying that marketing assumes infrequent use of full screen mode. But, NONE of those is an actual indication of what most users are/were ACTUALLY doing (nor what new users are likely to do). The first two are anecdotal (ie: worthless in determining an actual generalized truth). The third is speculative.

We wont know which assumption is correct without a rigorous and well designed usability study. We don't know if the marketing team actually did one of those or not (I hope they did, but Peter hasn't revealed that to us).

What we do know: unless there is also going to be a tablet sized product line, our usage patterns of the devices will change. We don't know yet if that's good or bad. We just know it's going to happen, either because existing apps will be smaller, or we'll be moving to new apps that better fit the screen, or because we'll be changing how we do or don't invoke full screen mode, or .... etc.

(I'm sort of hoping that the RX-71 is a tablet ... but I'm also sort of hoping that the RX-71 is a netbook, or netbook sized tablet, to fit with that set of rumors)
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ragnar is offline ragnar
2009-05-25 , 22:30
Posts: 631 | Thanked: 1,123 times | Joined on Sep 2005 @ Helsinki
#274
Originally Posted by Texrat View Post
Whoa whoa WHOA! Bad logic alert.

That isn't necessarily true, friend ragnar. There are often unfortunate disincentives against embracing a best practice that overwhelm the value it provides. We can go off topic and spend the rest of the year listing and bemoaning them. I'll just cite one: smoking in restaurants. For decades here in the US there was opposition against eliminating it, the conventional "wisdom" being that "if that were good for business it would have already been done, no law required". And yet, when laws were implemented, universally no one lost net business and in fact I saw the business of our local establishments increase.

So the jury is actually out on the LCD secret sauce. But I'll bet ya that the first company to put out a 4.1 screen with no appreciable bulk surrounding it will kick major marketing @$$.
I can take that bet. Perhaps not in terms of marketing *** - but in terms of actual mass market sales. I'm personally skeptical, I personally think that it's too large to be carried by most people. But I'm not responsible for making any decisions about Nokia devices and their sizes, so I guess I can say my personal opinion on this topic.

Anyways.

http://www.archos.com/products/imt/i...try=fi&lang=en
http://www.archos.com/products/gen_5...try=fi&lang=en

There's your 3.5 inch, 4.2 inch, 5 inch and 7 inch models. That was my main point anyway, about screen being a very poor competitive advantage.

I guess the difference here is that whereas smoking wasn't previously tested, ... Every screen size has been tested, in many devices. And it's not too hard to do consumer research. We of course do plenty of research. Doing mockups and realistic prototypes with different sizes is perfectly feasible. It's not like Google testing fourty-something different colour variations for a given shade of blue, but still.

I don't think the jury is completely out. I'd say that for a given set of key use cases for a device, I can ballpark a screen/device size figure that is pretty close on the the money. The size of course differs depending on which use cases you put to be the most important. And of course the jury is still out for one-device-does-all -size. (But the jury should be out on whether such a thing makes sense or not.)
 

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benny1967 is offline benny1967
2009-05-25 , 22:30
Posts: 3,790 | Thanked: 5,718 times | Joined on Mar 2006 @ Vienna, Austria
#275
Originally Posted by Aisu View Post
The N810 is in no way, shape, or form, too big to be pocketable, so shush about that, please.
I don't want it to be. I want a phone to be pocketable. The RX-51 is too big and big for a phone. (Way too big and heavy.)

The tablets I use at home (bed, couch), or when I'm travelling (keep them in a bag then). For that, the RX-51 is too small - it doesn't offer enough benefit over a phone.
 

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chlettn is offline chlettn
2009-05-25 , 22:33
Posts: 137 | Thanked: 138 times | Joined on Sep 2007
#276
Originally Posted by Texrat View Post
What you're overlooking in your rush to post and leave is that many of us quite frankly never cared about the pocket fit issue and that the continued focus on that is a red herring.
"Many of us" refering to what? A hundred people on here? The maybe 50.000 (if that) people who bought one of the completely non-marketed 770/N800/N810?
Compared to millions of iPhone/5800/G1/BB Storm users?
Elaborate, please.

Originally Posted by Texrat View Post
Especially where pants pockets are concerned. IF I carry my tablet in a pocket, it's in a shirt where it fits very well.
Yeah, and a lot of potential customers don't wear shirts 24/7.

Originally Posted by Texrat View Post
There are numerous pouches for carrying the tablets, clipped to a belt, over a shoulder, whatever.
Yeah, try selling a belt clip that to any person under 35 or even 40, so that they can actually carry that tablet around. They'll likely smile politely and ask for something else.

You can't sell a device that is supposed to be part of your daily life without making it sexy - and a belt clip or pouch or whatever pretty much kills whatever desirable design the device has to offer otherwise.

Really, that suggestion alone is amusing. I'm 24, and let me tell you, you're a bit out of touch with what younger people with money to spend want.

Originally Posted by Texrat View Post
You're amused by the screen change complaints-- I'm amused that the "neither fish nor meat" remarks must always be seen in a negative light. It's a good thing inventors over the years never let such closed-mindedness dissuade them.
So, in a forum full of people who cry "FOUL" over any tiny little change, you accuse me of closed-mindedness? That's really just rich, my friend. I could say the very same thing about you, for that matter.
Last edited by chlettn; 2009-05-25 at 22:36.
 

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GeraldKo is offline GeraldKo
2009-05-25 , 22:33
Posts: 1,950 | Thanked: 1,174 times | Joined on Jan 2008 @ Seattle, USA
#277
Originally Posted by johnkzin View Post
No, that is not the issue.

The issue is how big the app is in whatever mode MOST USERS are/will be using it in.

I, for one, rarely used full screen mode (and what Peter says makes _some_ sense to me).
Well, I'll ask you the same question I asked sjgadsby, who also uses full-screen only rarely: what do you use your Tablet for?
 
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Jaffa is offline Jaffa
2009-05-25 , 22:33
Posts: 2,535 | Thanked: 6,681 times | Joined on Mar 2008 @ UK
#278
Originally Posted by sachin007 View Post
ya 13 keys per line vs 11.

I think the second one is a photo shop...
Well, the second one has blue "alternates" on the keys just like the N810... but no way to get to them. The UI is also Diablo's (more or less, the task navigator icons look like Bora's!), not Fremantle's:

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GeraldKo is offline GeraldKo
2009-05-25 , 22:37
Posts: 1,950 | Thanked: 1,174 times | Joined on Jan 2008 @ Seattle, USA
#279
Originally Posted by chlettn View Post
Assuming that the the MobileCrunch article is accurate, this next-gen Maemo device will be a full smartphone, and I applaud Nokia's move to make it pocket-friendlier (and thus, actually usable as a smartphone). It's the first Maemo device I'd actually consider buying because it seems genuinely useful to me - while the N800/N810 were nice devices, but ultimatively nowhere near interesting enough for me to spend money on them.
So you've never even actually owned a Tablet (despite your 130+ posts), am I getting this right?
 
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sachin007 is offline sachin007
2009-05-25 , 22:37
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#280
Originally Posted by chlettn View Post
"Many of us" refering to what? A hundred people on here? The maybe 50.000 (if that) people who bought one of the completely non-marketed 770/N800/N810?
Compared to millions of iPhone/5800/G1/BB Storm users?
Elaborate, please.


Yeah, and a lot of potential customers don't wear shirts 24/7.


Yeah, try selling a belt clip that to any person under 35 or even 40, so that they can actually carry that tablet around. They'll likely smile politely and ask for something else.

You can't sell a device that is supposed to be part of your daily life without making it sexy - and a belt clip or pouch or whatever pretty much kills whatever desirable design the device has to offer otherwise.

Really, that suggestion alone is amusing. I'm 24, and let me tell you, you're a bit out of touch with what younger people with money to spend want.



So, in a forum full of people who cry "FOUL" over any tiny little change, you accuse me of closed-mindedness? That's really just rich, my friend. I could say the very same thing about you, for that matter.
We totally agree the screen size for a maemo phone.... not for a maemo tablet. Please understand the difference.

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disapointed by nokia, dpad, maemo phone, my tablet is crying, n900, nokia gets it wrong, openmoko, rover, rx-51, rx-71 needed, screen size, smartphone, t-mobile

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