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2009-06-09
, 12:36
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Posts: 3,319 |
Thanked: 5,610 times |
Joined on Aug 2008
@ Finland
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#1202
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Originally Posted by allnameswereout
Yes. And that it is exactly why having open platforms is such a big deal.
The control you have over your hardware and software is relative to what it provides and how you are allowed (legally, morally), and/or able to utilize (*) the abilities of the device, and/or your time/money to devote to this. This is true for any device, any tool. Not only smartphones or tablets; also cars.
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2009-06-09
, 20:17
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Posts: 1,097 |
Thanked: 650 times |
Joined on Nov 2007
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#1203
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I just thought one thing and wahted to throw it out.
We keep talking about having open source on these desirable hardwares - so that even it the hardware reaches end-of-life, we can still continue to use it as we wish.
While this is absolutely true and is a good principle, in reality though we eventually abandon the hardware platform as some new device comes in.
Case in point - the Sharp Zaurus was a open platform (partially) and the Cacko ROM and the Opie guys were supporting the Zaurus even after Sharp started abondoning it - but that's just more for the record. Most Zaurus users have surely and steadily migrated to other platforms including the NIT.
One reason is that Open source software alone is not sufficient to keep a end-of-life product alive if there is not a open ecosystem around it - which will keep the users around the device. Without users, the open sourced software ultimately dies as well.
Of course all that I said above is dependant of the fact that the hardware also is not obsoleted - which it naturally does over time.
We keep talking about having open source on these desirable hardwares - so that even it the hardware reaches end-of-life, we can still continue to use it as we wish.
While this is absolutely true and is a good principle, in reality though we eventually abandon the hardware platform as some new device comes in.
Case in point - the Sharp Zaurus was a open platform (partially) and the Cacko ROM and the Opie guys were supporting the Zaurus even after Sharp started abondoning it - but that's just more for the record. Most Zaurus users have surely and steadily migrated to other platforms including the NIT.
One reason is that Open source software alone is not sufficient to keep a end-of-life product alive if there is not a open ecosystem around it - which will keep the users around the device. Without users, the open sourced software ultimately dies as well.
Of course all that I said above is dependant of the fact that the hardware also is not obsoleted - which it naturally does over time.
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2009-06-09
, 22:00
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Posts: 4,672 |
Thanked: 5,455 times |
Joined on Jul 2008
@ Springfield, MA, USA
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#1204
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Originally Posted by nilchak
There's a big difference between being artificially obsoleted by being excluded from newer software (and not necessarily better hardware) and being naturally obsoleted by better and faster hardware.
I just thought one thing and wahted to throw it out.
We keep talking about having open source on these desirable hardwares - so that even it the hardware reaches end-of-life, we can still continue to use it as we wish.
While this is absolutely true and is a good principle, in reality though we eventually abandon the hardware platform as some new device comes in.
Case in point - the Sharp Zaurus was a open platform (partially) and the Cacko ROM and the Opie guys were supporting the Zaurus even after Sharp started abondoning it - but that's just more for the record. Most Zaurus users have surely and steadily migrated to other platforms including the NIT.
One reason is that Open source software alone is not sufficient to keep a end-of-life product alive if there is not a open ecosystem around it - which will keep the users around the device. Without users, the open sourced software ultimately dies as well.
Of course all that I said above is dependant of the fact that the hardware also is not obsoleted - which it naturally does over time.
The big issue is whether the manufacturer should be the one to dictate whether and how you use the hardware you purchased and own.
It would be like buying a car and every two years, they tell you they're going to stop making parts for each new car they make.. and they FORBID you to buy third party parts or to even make your own to any specs. (This is a large part of the reason why ODB-II interface/protocols were necessary... car manufacturers didn't see it in their best interest to do something that didn't lock you into buying their diagnostics or going to one of their own service shops). re: http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2009/05...repair-law-pro
Last edited by danramos; 2009-06-09 at 22:18.
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2009-06-10
, 00:21
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Posts: 1,097 |
Thanked: 650 times |
Joined on Nov 2007
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#1205
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Originally Posted by danramos
Oh, I totally agree with you here - that being tied down forcibly by the mfrs is a bad thing. And of course I do see the plus points of open source from the philosophical angle (and I subscribe to the same philosophy).
The big issue is whether the manufacturer should be the one to dictate whether and how you use the hardware you purchased and own.
But my earlier point was that with hardware obsolescence not being a factor, people will still move away from a hardware (albeit slowly) which supports open source software and itself is open to modify when the manufacturer drops the hardware platform from constinous development - and this is mainly due to the fact that the natual development ecosystem of any hardware/software conbination needs both the components - hardware and software to be in active development to sustain the market interest and involvement.
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2009-06-10
, 04:20
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Posts: 643 |
Thanked: 628 times |
Joined on Mar 2007
@ Seattle (or thereabouts)
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#1206
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@nilchak, danramos: What you're both talking about is something that I've been thinking about for a while. I've been using various Sharp Zauruses since the SL-5500 and I've been using Nokia Interrnet Tablets since the N800 was released. There's definitely been a ton of hardware improvements in that time, and there are certainly some things that the Zaurus hardware just isn't capable of doing at a usable speed that doesn't even make the N8x0 hardware sweat (such as web browsing). That being said I think a lot of people would still be using their Zauruses if the Zaurus community hadn't become so fragmented that development ground to a halt. Part of this fragmentation I blame on Sharp for their poor communication with the community (and their eventually abandoning the software they made leaving users and devs no way to move forwards). But that just set the stage: It was the lack of a communication and agreement (and sometimes the presence of ego) in the Zaurus community that really led to so many different, mutually incompatible, device dependent distros. I think for a new dev not only having to deal with cross compiling is a big enough hurdle, without having to figure out how to cross compile 3 different ways and target different versions of different distros, some of which only run on one device.
I think getting to the point where a new developer can target phones, internet tablets, MIDs, and tablet PCs with just one source tree/source package is where we need to be to make developing for Maemo/Mer attractive enough to be sustainable.
Sorry for rambling, but I get so frustrated when I think about all the wasted effort and the early irrelevance of the Zaurus hardware that could have been avoided. I really hope we can work together to avoid that same situation here.
-John
I think getting to the point where a new developer can target phones, internet tablets, MIDs, and tablet PCs with just one source tree/source package is where we need to be to make developing for Maemo/Mer attractive enough to be sustainable.
Sorry for rambling, but I get so frustrated when I think about all the wasted effort and the early irrelevance of the Zaurus hardware that could have been avoided. I really hope we can work together to avoid that same situation here.
-John
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2009-06-10
, 17:33
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Posts: 11,700 |
Thanked: 10,045 times |
Joined on Jun 2006
@ North Texas, USA
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#1207
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I wish I could thank the above post multiple times...
__________________
Nokia Developer Champion
Different <> Wrong | Listen - Judgment = Progress | People + Trust = Success
My personal site: http://texrat.net
Nokia Developer Champion
Different <> Wrong | Listen - Judgment = Progress | People + Trust = Success
My personal site: http://texrat.net
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2009-06-10
, 17:47
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Posts: 3,790 |
Thanked: 5,718 times |
Joined on Mar 2006
@ Vienna, Austria
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#1208
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Originally Posted by Texrat
you can:
I wish I could thank the above post multiple times...
http://talk.maemo.org/register.php
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2009-06-11
, 11:43
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Posts: 883 |
Thanked: 980 times |
Joined on Jul 2007
@ Bern, Switzerland
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#1209
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The success of future Maemo devices will not depend on their hardware, but on their software "ecosystem". Build up something like iPhone - App store - Itunes (device apps and desktop apps), then add open souce on top of it (and underneath in the OS :-). But open source alone WON'T cut it.
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2009-06-11
, 12:02
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Posts: 3,319 |
Thanked: 5,610 times |
Joined on Aug 2008
@ Finland
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#1210
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Not sure about that myself. The success of AppStore/iTunes does NOT mean that it is the only or best way of mainstreaming an open source platform. Sure, it's easy to take a look at what's all the rage today (rightfully or not) but you can't mix concepts that easily - saying if it works for iPhoneOS it surely must work for Maemo, too.
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| Tags |
| disapointed by nokia, dpad, maemo phone, my tablet is crying, n900, nokia gets it wrong, openmoko, rover, rx-51, rx-71 needed, screen size, smartphone, t-mobile |
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(*) Goes in several degradations of complexity. Example A) If you're not able to install a Mozilla Firefox on your Windows OS because 1) your admin denies this or 2) you are too stupid for this then you're stuck with the default browser, MSIE. Example B) Soldering modchip for hacking around DRM, coding a deDRM application is more complex
Also, you could insure it...
Goosfraba! All text written by allnameswereout is public domain unless stated otherwise. Thank you for sharing your output!
Last edited by allnameswereout; 2009-06-09 at 11:27.