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2009-08-02
, 01:19
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Posts: 2,869 |
Thanked: 1,784 times |
Joined on Feb 2007
@ Po' Bo'. PA
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#52
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Well then... I stand corrected...
Nokia has provided plenty of support for the tablets and has not relied on this community to answer questions like "where is the swap key?" after releasing an update days before a company wide, two week holiday...
My bad... I must not have drank the same kool-aid as some.
EDIT: Added...
Talk about developers vs. users seems to suck the enthusiasm out this for me at least.
What's so hard about saying we are all users of the device and we don't separate this community into factions?
Is it safer for some to feel they belong to some elite sub-group or suttin'?
My comment about heads in the sand referred to a belief that a new user of a Maemo device wouldn't come here... They will. Just as they have after each time buy.com or whoever lowers their price. When a new device hits the market they will come here again... unless maemo.nokia.com does something magical to Google page rank.
Be prepared to answer this threads question as well as many other questions, over and over, all over again.
Last edited by YoDude; 2009-08-02 at 03:14. Reason: Had not read a reply
Nokia has provided plenty of support for the tablets and has not relied on this community to answer questions like "where is the swap key?" after releasing an update days before a company wide, two week holiday...
My bad... I must not have drank the same kool-aid as some.
EDIT: Added...
Originally Posted by GeneralAntilles
Where? A Google search of maemo.nokia.com comes back to here. If you are talking about the future then when?
No, as has been said before (talking about head in the sand . . . we've got a bad case of fingers in ears here), maemo.nokia.com will be the place for regular users to go for support.
Talk about developers vs. users seems to suck the enthusiasm out this for me at least.
What's so hard about saying we are all users of the device and we don't separate this community into factions?
Is it safer for some to feel they belong to some elite sub-group or suttin'?
My comment about heads in the sand referred to a belief that a new user of a Maemo device wouldn't come here... They will. Just as they have after each time buy.com or whoever lowers their price. When a new device hits the market they will come here again... unless maemo.nokia.com does something magical to Google page rank.
Be prepared to answer this threads question as well as many other questions, over and over, all over again.
Last edited by YoDude; 2009-08-02 at 03:14. Reason: Had not read a reply
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2009-08-02
, 08:28
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Posts: 302 |
Thanked: 254 times |
Joined on Oct 2007
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#53
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I'd expect Nokia to keep tabs on how many individual tablets have been updated to new (incl. which) versions of firmware.
I personally found ITT even before I began hunting for my tablet (I reckoned it being open source any software updates would be more-or-less future-proof so the half-bakedness didn't bother me all that much...), so I haven't kept an eye on the upgrade and community information Nokia dispenses via their official channels.
What kind of information does a new and relatively inexperienced user get from Nokia without googling the right keywords and getting lucky?
Most improvements to Chinook/Diablo user experience require at least some elbow grease and the user experience of the plain standard install is also decaying due to cruft and with web standards and app compatibilities moving forward.
So, how does this relate to Fremantle's potential "stillborn" status and the community?
One of the keys to a healthy community is keeping the potential members involved or interested (and also not fragmented). I don't think I've ever received any communication from Nokia about anything related to the tablets.
I personally found ITT even before I began hunting for my tablet (I reckoned it being open source any software updates would be more-or-less future-proof so the half-bakedness didn't bother me all that much...), so I haven't kept an eye on the upgrade and community information Nokia dispenses via their official channels.
What kind of information does a new and relatively inexperienced user get from Nokia without googling the right keywords and getting lucky?
Most improvements to Chinook/Diablo user experience require at least some elbow grease and the user experience of the plain standard install is also decaying due to cruft and with web standards and app compatibilities moving forward.
So, how does this relate to Fremantle's potential "stillborn" status and the community?
Originally Posted by silvermountain
I wonder what percentage of Nokia tablet owners are genuinely happy with the level of support (incl. software updates - also by major partners- and present/future platform support). Bonus points for breaking up that stat between 1) those who've never updated anything, 2) those who simply flashed an upgrade, 3) those who've been to ITT but didn't stick around, and 4) us die-hard users and developers.
If the N900 would come with a presentational layer that is in lack of better words dead-ended in that it will not continue onto other h/w devices I must admit that I, as a novice, would feel that I would be buying into a device that will soon lack support and s/w updates as focus moves on.
Even a community as active as this can't possibly juggle updates and ports between, what, five?, OS versions (Diablo/Chinook/Mer/Fremantle/Harmattan).
I guess some would phase out - but aren't people still using Chinook and maybe there will still be users clinging on to Diablo after Mer comes out. It still feels like efforts would/could be spread very thin.
I know that my views are simplistic but I also think that I may represent a part of the potential customer base for the N900 and I'm curious as to how Nokia is/will be addressing such concerns).
One of the keys to a healthy community is keeping the potential members involved or interested (and also not fragmented). I don't think I've ever received any communication from Nokia about anything related to the tablets.
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2009-08-02
, 08:39
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Posts: 2,802 |
Thanked: 4,491 times |
Joined on Nov 2007
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#54
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Originally Posted by Peet
They can't ,really. You may have to enter the WLAN MAC address to access the firmware downloads, but once you download an image you can flash any number of devices with it.
I'd expect Nokia to keep tabs on how many individual tablets have been updated to new (incl. which) versions of firmware.
SSU updates make it even harder, as the downloads are "anonymous" (and does Akamai even provide http access logs?)
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2009-08-02
, 08:56
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Posts: 2,802 |
Thanked: 4,491 times |
Joined on Nov 2007
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#55
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Originally Posted by VDVsx
That's not a valid comparison IMHO. Historically Qtopia on Openmoko drew directly on the framebuffer, while the Neo X server had very poor performance. On Maemo both GTK+ and Qt run on top of X11, and the devices have decent display hardware (2D at least) acceleration.
Historically Qt has proven to be faster than GTK+ on slow and limited hardware, as example see the former Qtopia distro in OpenMoko.
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2009-08-02
, 09:03
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Posts: 2,535 |
Thanked: 6,681 times |
Joined on Mar 2008
@ UK
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#56
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Originally Posted by gerbick
Which developers? Whilst Diablo's been out we've had Tear, FlipClock, and many others. But you're right; Diablo's been a maintenance release so the flurry of stuff for Chinook's carried through to Diablo.
It has more to do with user perception simply because the developers didn't do **** this iteration and are going to be limited in the next iteration.
As for Fremantle, external developers are already doing cool things and are excited about the increased CPU power, 3D acceleration, accelerometers and more compelling UI.
If you're talking about Nokia developers, I don't see your point.
Only fanboys and hopefuls will fall into line. And to treat skeptics with such disregard... alarming. Each view is worth discussion. Sorta what a forum is all about. Seems like a few of you people want no discussion, just a group of sheep instead.
As for the Gtk+ -> Qt transition, it's not unexpected; we'll probably lose some developers and gain some new ones. Development will become easier and more consistent (certainly easier to avoid Scratchbox with things like PyQt).
The increased disk space rumoured to be coming in the next generation of devices means that a package pulling in Gtk from Extras will be no harder, or troublesome, than pulling in Python now.
__________________
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2009-08-02
, 10:35
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Posts: 4,783 |
Thanked: 1,253 times |
Joined on Aug 2007
@ norway
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#57
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Originally Posted by lma
iirc, fremantle will be the first maemo release to use a full X11, diable and earlier use a more limited version on top of framebuffer...
That's not a valid comparison IMHO. Historically Qtopia on Openmoko drew directly on the framebuffer, while the Neo X server had very poor performance. On Maemo both GTK+ and Qt run on top of X11, and the devices have decent display hardware (2D at least) acceleration.
__________________
Be warned, posts are often line of thoughts at highway speeds...
Be warned, posts are often line of thoughts at highway speeds...
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2009-08-02
, 17:53
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Guest |
Posts: n/a |
Thanked: 0 times |
Joined on
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#58
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Originally Posted by Jaffa
What "flurry" of apps? I've listed out what has not been updated since Chinook or early 2008 mostly in another thread: Skype, Gizmo, Evince, Xournal, MPlayer, RTComm, MicroB, Flash Player, Media Player, Maps. And I've stated what has been updated: Tear, DialCentral, Mauku, the Home Apps (HomeIP, et al)...
Which developers? Whilst Diablo's been out we've had Tear, FlipClock, and many others. But you're right; Diablo's been a maintenance release so the flurry of stuff for Chinook's carried through to Diablo.
There was no flurry of apps. A few applets here and there, or the apps that came from Fiferboy - Personal Launcher, Yellow Notes 0.2, etc. - were... for the most part all that I installed and wanted. The rest weren't anywhere near ready for primetime.
As for Fremantle, external developers are already doing cool things and are excited about the increased CPU power, 3D acceleration, accelerometers and more compelling UI.
Where are the apps that people actually want/use that are commercial? Adobe FP10 - we have to wait for the Open Screen initiative because... well, it could have been updated but hasn't been - blame Adobe or Nokia. Where's the updated browser and not the dead end fork that we still use today? Where's the RTComm that uses the included camera and Skype that's been updated since December 2007?
I don't want another flip clock. I have a watch, I have a cellphone, I have a clock widget on the NIT already. That's like having 8 different ways to edit a text file. Do I need 8 different ways to edit a *.txt file? No. Waste of space.
If you're talking about Nokia developers, I don't see your point.
You people are just being unrealistic. Sure, Fremantle is being discussed. Diablo was born dead. Chinook is dead. Bora, extremely dead. I get it. But Fremantle... soon to die too. Harmattan is where people are already looking.
And I have no reason to join the next iteration because of how I saw it go from the 770 to N800/N810 to this upcoming model in about 3 years and support lasting only one year on a non-phone but pocket computer (basically)... sorry, but my gadgets aren't that disposable.
So I'll be waiting on Qt, Harmattan and watching the N900 basically become obselete by next Winter (2010)... about a year after its release.
With the talks going on, even a cursory glance supports what I just said. The N900 will not be anything but replaced soon thereafter, Harmattan is where Nokia might actually stop killing parts of this Maemo platform and deprecating main UI bits and settle in on an upgrade path that makes sense.
Right now, all I see is Mobile Windows 2003/2003 Second Edition all over again. Only with root access and more fanaticism.
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2009-08-02
, 19:02
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Posts: 263 |
Thanked: 77 times |
Joined on Jan 2009
@ Sigtuna, Sweden
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#59
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Gerbick's impressions point to what I am thinking.
I believe Nokia has used the tablets N770 - N810 as stepping stones towards a future of Linux pocketables.
Someone from Nokia spoke of steps 1 to 5, N810 beeing nr. 3.
My guess is that Nokia has focused their software development on the future pocket Linux OS,
and used the tablets to communicate with the Linux community.
Of course the tablets had to be useful for consumers, but I guess that Nokia will target more professional use
first with "step 5 (4?)". Nr. 5 = Harmattan ? Or Harmattan+ ?
E.g.:
Surfing on complex websites with many photos is a bit slow, many pro's would want more power before they consider leaving their laptop at home.
In Sweden shops have never had these tablets in stock, although we are rather gadget minded.
You could buy them from web stores, or order them at your dealer, but then he'd expect you to buy.
Consider Nokias strategy of (heavily) bying into supporting development, and at the same time preparing a continuation of Symbian more independant of Nokia.
I believe Nokia has used the tablets N770 - N810 as stepping stones towards a future of Linux pocketables.
Someone from Nokia spoke of steps 1 to 5, N810 beeing nr. 3.
My guess is that Nokia has focused their software development on the future pocket Linux OS,
and used the tablets to communicate with the Linux community.
Of course the tablets had to be useful for consumers, but I guess that Nokia will target more professional use
first with "step 5 (4?)". Nr. 5 = Harmattan ? Or Harmattan+ ?
E.g.:
Surfing on complex websites with many photos is a bit slow, many pro's would want more power before they consider leaving their laptop at home.
In Sweden shops have never had these tablets in stock, although we are rather gadget minded.
You could buy them from web stores, or order them at your dealer, but then he'd expect you to buy.
Consider Nokias strategy of (heavily) bying into supporting development, and at the same time preparing a continuation of Symbian more independant of Nokia.
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2009-08-02
, 19:05
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Posts: 1,359 |
Thanked: 717 times |
Joined on May 2009
@ ...standing right behind you...
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#60
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Originally Posted by KristianW
Would you have a link to where Nokia talked about '1-5'?
Gerbick's impressions point to what I am thinking.
I believe Nokia has used the tablets N770 - N810 as stepping stones towards a future of Linux pocketables.
Someone from Nokia spoke of steps 1 to 5, N810 beeing nr. 3.
My guess is that Nokia has focused their software development on the future pocket Linux OS,
and used the tablets to communicate with the Linux community.
Of course the tablets had to be useful for consumers, but I guess that Nokia will target more professional use
first with "step 5 (4?)". Nr. 5 = Harmattan ? Or Harmattan+ ?
__________________
.N810 experience: Since 6/2009
My Twenty Favorite OS2008 Applications:
AutoScan, Diablo5 Theme, Dialcentral, DragLock, EmelFM2, FlipClock, gPodder, Headphoned, Knots 2, Maemo Mapper, mPlayer, openNTPD, OpenSSH, Panucci, Personal Launcher, QuickNote, Seqretary, SlideLock, Telescope, YellowNotes
.N810 experience: Since 6/2009
My Twenty Favorite OS2008 Applications:
AutoScan, Diablo5 Theme, Dialcentral, DragLock, EmelFM2, FlipClock, gPodder, Headphoned, Knots 2, Maemo Mapper, mPlayer, openNTPD, OpenSSH, Panucci, Personal Launcher, QuickNote, Seqretary, SlideLock, Telescope, YellowNotes
I am the only one of that group to visit ITT.
Nokia Developer Champion
Different <> Wrong | Listen - Judgment = Progress | People + Trust = Success
My personal site: http://texrat.net