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quipper8 is offline quipper8
2009-09-11 , 14:05
Posts: 1,096 | Thanked: 760 times | Joined on Dec 2008
#171
Originally Posted by gerbick View Post
can I just simply ask for somebody to break this down to me a bit better than it has been so far to me?

Reason I'm asking... mind you... I've had prior phones that were subsidized that were not crippled or even branded over than a startup screen from all I could tell.

So why is this a problem with the Maemo branded phone? Am I missing a shift in how phones are marketed now?

Feel free to treat me like some 3 year old dummy (which isn't too far from the truth). I just don't... quite get the concern from the standpoint from the carrier.
The issue now is really whether the mobile DATA providers in the US can be reduced to dumb pipe status just like your regular cable or dsl internet service provider.

With phones and mobile data rates now capable of doing such things as various chat protocols and various voip protocols, there exists a scenario wherein a consumer may be able to supersede the value added services of a mobile provider(voice calling and sms) using their own services on the providers network.

Of course mobile providers make a killing off of billing calling minutes(incoming and outgoing in the US) and sms so they are fighting this dumb-pipe-ization fervently. Most often this takes the form of both blocking such apps either at the software level on the individual handsets(ie no google voice app on iphone, no voip on nokia e71x, etc) or blocking those protocol packets on the network(basically blocking all ports but 80 or disabling RTP UDP packets which voip audio uses)

I think, though, through the apparent partnership nokia is developing with Deutsche Telekom and therefore T-mobile USA presumably by extension, and as evidenced by various t-mobile moves of late regarding pre-paid data service plans in the US, that Nokia(and maybe google too) are looking to t-mobile to lead the way against the three providers that lead t-mobile in subscribers(ATT, Sprint, Verizon).

Back when I was using my n810 very extensively tethered to my Treo 700p on Sprint network, it seemed clear to me that this was the direction nokia wanted to push in. My n810 had reduced my sprint connection to essentially a dumb pipe even then. With mobile providers in the US reduced in this fashion, I think consumers will definitely benefit with lower costs, greater device selection and competition, cooler mobile services. Oh, device manufacturers a la Nokia will also benefit greatly
Last edited by quipper8; 2009-09-11 at 14:25.
 

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Reggie is offline Reggie
2009-09-11 , 14:25
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#172
Here's a post at Nokia Conversations that clears things up:
http://conversations.nokia.com/2009/...for-operators/
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ARJWright is offline ARJWright
2009-09-11 , 14:36
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#173
Originally Posted by Reggie View Post
Here's a post at Nokia Conversations that clears things up:
http://conversations.nokia.com/2009/...for-operators/
I'll post the same thing I just posted there

Ooooh, addressed here. Now, I've got more than enough PR knowledge to know that this means something in some discussion got some stakeholder a bit wary

No biggie. This is a good thing.

The benefit of Maemo to users is its openness. The benefit of Maemo to Nokia is the control Nokia gets over hardware and software implementation (moreso than Symbian which is more or less driven by committee). What then is the benefit to carriers?

Because if users can customize the device to their needs, and only need the carrier as a pipe, how then does the Nokia-experience speak as something carriers can continue to find healthy revenue streams towards? Because Nokia isn't Apple or RIM; Nokia's brand is much more about the devices than services at this point, and for carriers, Nokia's services become a threat overtop those devices they (too) would no longer have control over.
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eiffel is offline eiffel
2009-09-11 , 16:31
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#174
I'm amazed that Americans even use the word "subsidised" to describe what's going on here.

Instead, people should say something like: "Well, you could either get the full Nokia device, or you could get a crippled version from the carrier bundled with a 24-month contract."
 
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aironeous is offline aironeous
2009-09-11 , 16:52
Posts: 819 | Thanked: 806 times | Joined on Jun 2009 @ Oxnard, Ca.
#175
wtf just happened?! All i did was pick up the N810 after typing in a few paragraphs! This has to be one of the most annoying things about tear browser, " oooooops! Did you think that you are allowed to put the tablet down and pick it back up to finish what you were saying? WRONG! One click on the edge of the screen accidentally is all it takes to erase everything you just spent 20 minutes typing! And send you off somewhere else who knows where, too bad!
 
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Texrat is offline Texrat
2009-09-11 , 16:58
Posts: 11,700 | Thanked: 10,045 times | Joined on Jun 2006 @ North Texas, USA
#176
Really, when Nokia talks "services", I start wondering how that will be pulled off on the networks of others-- who have already shown resistance at carrying Nokia's offerings due to direct competition with little or no reward.

Maybe Nokia needs to launch their own [non-sucking] version of Iridium...

Wait-- maybe THAT's the easter egg!
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froid is offline froid
2009-09-11 , 18:04
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#177
Damn...I was hopeful that the days of Carrier customization might be over...but I see the stories of it's demise were premature.

I would accept Carrier customization with 3 rules:

1. Carrier custom programs should not replace any original built in programs. ie: Rogers music player instead of Nokia music player. You can add things, but don't remove the things that come with the phone already. Compete with a similar or better program, don't force me.
2. Carrier custom themes, images, sounds, etc...should be deleteable. If I don't use them, or I don't want them, I should be able to remove them from taking up memory on my phone.
3. Crippling of any kind shouldn't be allowed. If a phone has a feature when announced, I don't want to get it to find out Voip or something else has been removed.
 

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nilchak is offline nilchak
2009-09-11 , 19:01
Posts: 1,097 | Thanked: 650 times | Joined on Nov 2007
#178
Originally Posted by dantonic View Post
The only difference I see, at least in the USA, is that mainstream users will be faced with the same issues they've been faced for a long time... in this sense the US mainstream users won't even know they are being faced with those issues, because that is just how it works here. However they will be introduced to an awesome concept, a great phone, a great device, and might start looking forward to new maemo devices, might start gaining insterest in how to modify their tablet, and might just find out that you can actually flash the tablet and do SO MUCH MORE!

I understand the principle of the matter, the concept of open source, and how it would be stifled in the instance I depicted above, but I think in this case, for the US market, Nokia will be shooting themselves in the foot, and instead of facilitiating the diffusion of this great device, they might just restrict it to the current maemo community, and to those willing to purchase a hi end "phone" that costs > than $600.00
Besides if the option to Flash the device is kept on the table, then you could argue the device is still fully customizable/opensource!
See from the individualistic point of view (as you rightly pointed out) getting the N900 subsidized with a 2 year contract makes better sense then unsibsidized and no contract but paying the same price nevertheless month-to-month. I totally understand that.

But as long as we keep doing that, the ISP's will keep screwing us over.

And from Nokia's point of view - as long as they go the subsidized route, they will alse be screwer over and dictated to by the ISP's.

So the only way to stop this NONSENSE is to stop with the subsidized crap altogether.

That way the ISP's lose all leverage over anyone - the customer as well as the manufacturer.
 

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eiffel is offline eiffel
2009-09-11 , 20:00
Posts: 600 | Thanked: 742 times | Joined on Sep 2008 @ England
#179
Originally Posted by froid View Post
I would accept Carrier customization with 3 rules:

1. Carrier custom programs should not replace any original built in programs...
2. Carrier custom themes, images, sounds, etc...should be deleteable...
3. Crippling of any kind shouldn't be allowed...
I think everyone would accept carrier customization on that basis, except for the carriers.

Nokia isn't the only manufacturer who hates this. From the Motorola website:

Certain mobile phone features are dependent on the capabilities and settings of your service provider’s network. Additionally, certain features may not be activated by your service provider, and/or their network settings may limit the feature’s functionality.
What they're saying in their fine print is: blame the #@£*$ carriers, not us.
 
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dantonic is offline dantonic
2009-09-11 , 21:24
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#180
I see your points, I guess you gotta start somewhere right?

Don't get me wrong I hate the current US system as much as all of you, I guess I just don't have enough faith in the American Sheeple to actually understand the underlying truth.

Most people just think that the way it currently works here is the way it just is, they have no clue that there could be 'another' way.

I was just suggesting in my utopian example that it might be a way to introduce the masses to the concept of open source.

Without the actual support of at least one carrier pushing along side for a 'new' model of open source here in the US, it will be very difficult! I hope it happens! I really really do.

The only other way Nokia could do it in my mind is with an incredible and expensive marketing campaign.
Otherwise at it might take a long long time.
 
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