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2009-09-21
, 19:54
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Posts: 670 |
Thanked: 359 times |
Joined on May 2007
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#132
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Originally Posted by pycage
What? I already carry a MacBook Pro and an Eee901 (running Crunchbang Linux) everywhere, and I was hoping that the N900 would be a good step forwards towards convergence nirvana, allowing me to lighten my load. It seems that it isn't though, as it would appear that the N900 is designed to be just another peripheral for a PC (and from what I've been hearing about Ovi, probably one running Windows).
Maybe you should consider getting an UMPC instead as USB is what UMPCs are good at.
Of course your opinion is as valid as mine, and probably more popular with the marketing crowd, but remember what Bill Hicks said about them ...
__________________
Class .. : Lame hacker & beardy boffin
Humour . : [#######---] Alignment: Apathetic anarchist
Patience : [####------] Weapon(s): My cat, my code.
Agro ... : |#---------] Relic(s) : N900, MacBookPro, NSLU2, N800, SheevaPlug, Eee-901, Core2-Quad, PS3
"In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they're not."
--
Beware of extras-devel.
Class .. : Lame hacker & beardy boffin
Humour . : [#######---] Alignment: Apathetic anarchist
Patience : [####------] Weapon(s): My cat, my code.
Agro ... : |#---------] Relic(s) : N900, MacBookPro, NSLU2, N800, SheevaPlug, Eee-901, Core2-Quad, PS3
"In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they're not."
--
Beware of extras-devel.
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2009-09-21
, 20:05
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Posts: 670 |
Thanked: 359 times |
Joined on May 2007
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#133
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Originally Posted by pycage
I'm specifically thinking of these:
What kind of devices would that be?
1) USB/RS-232 adapter and 2) USB soundcard, for hooking up to ham radio gear.
3) USB attached AX.25 Terminal Node Controller (which hooks up to other ham radio gear).
4) Sheevaplug debug port, providing JTAG and console interfaces.
One thing I'd like to understand is whether or not the N900 is now expected to be able to provide a USB-Net interface to connected hosts. Can anyone offer any insight in this regard?
__________________
Class .. : Lame hacker & beardy boffin
Humour . : [#######---] Alignment: Apathetic anarchist
Patience : [####------] Weapon(s): My cat, my code.
Agro ... : |#---------] Relic(s) : N900, MacBookPro, NSLU2, N800, SheevaPlug, Eee-901, Core2-Quad, PS3
"In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they're not."
--
Beware of extras-devel.
Class .. : Lame hacker & beardy boffin
Humour . : [#######---] Alignment: Apathetic anarchist
Patience : [####------] Weapon(s): My cat, my code.
Agro ... : |#---------] Relic(s) : N900, MacBookPro, NSLU2, N800, SheevaPlug, Eee-901, Core2-Quad, PS3
"In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they're not."
--
Beware of extras-devel.
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2009-09-21
, 20:06
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Posts: 3,397 |
Thanked: 1,212 times |
Joined on Jul 2008
@ Netherlands
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#134
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Originally Posted by fnordianslip
A mobile phone is a computer. A watch is a computer. A Nokia N900 is a mobile phone. But they're also much more.
Sure - a standard charger for mobile phones, but, this is billed as a computer, not a phone, and that's how I want to use it.
On the other hand I couldn't agree more regarding your point about storage. I'm more interested in attaching non-storage devices to my N900.
Honestly, I'm interested in the hypothetic use cases!
Originally Posted by pycage
Yeah, what are the use cases?
I guess this highly depends on how critical USB OTG is for you.
If that BlueTooth <-> USB host mode adapter works, is available for a reasonable price, and not too big and heavy the question becomes:
How critical is USB OTG with transfer speed higher than 2 MB/sec?
The only use case I can imagine is a portable HDD. I wonder about the throughput of that on e.g. N800.
OK, yes, you cannot use the N900 together with a portable CD/DVD burner and a non-Maemofied k3b UI. The horror, N900 sales will plunge. Seriously, if that is so important for you, grab some second hand laptop for 100 EUR and let it boot into k3b or something. As added bonus it can function as portable HDD as well. And it doesn't need a USB powered hub either, it has its own battery. Maybe it can even power up your N900 when the battery is empty.
__________________
Goosfraba! All text written by allnameswereout is public domain unless stated otherwise. Thank you for sharing your output!
Goosfraba! All text written by allnameswereout is public domain unless stated otherwise. Thank you for sharing your output!
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2009-09-21
, 20:09
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Moderator |
Posts: 7,109 |
Thanked: 8,820 times |
Joined on Oct 2007
@ Vancouver, BC, Canada
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#135
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Originally Posted by BruceL
I'm running into the same problem in my house these days. I find that I need to keep one PC that has (1) a Windows partition and (2) a DVD drive.
BUT, if my Nxx0 cannot connect to a HDD/DVD then I have to also own and maintain a PC so that I can access them when I need to. I don't want to have to purchase and maintain a PC just so that I can get data to/from a HDD/DVD when I need to.
No matter how I try, I find I need to keep coming back to Windows, even if it is just to do some gaming or download some proprietary driver software for my daughter's otherwise-very-cool Tag Reader. And I keep finding that there are optical discs that I need to read, no matter how obsolete I personally find them to be.
So yeah, I think most people are going to need some access to these legacy things for a while to come.
And as I've been saying, if the N800 was good enough for occasionally reading DVDs before, why isn't it good enough now? It can even easily transfer the data to a microSD (with adapter card) to be used by the N900.
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qole.org --- twitter --- Easy Debian wiki page
Please don't send me a private message, post to the appropriate thread.
Thank you all for your donations!
Last edited by qole; 2009-09-21 at 20:11.
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2009-09-21
, 20:13
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Posts: 42 |
Thanked: 4 times |
Joined on Sep 2009
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#136
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Originally Posted by fnordianslip
For number one here is what I have found: http://www.serialio.com/products/ada...BlueSnapXP.php there are a ton of these floating around out there I am gona try.
I'm specifically thinking of these:
1) USB/RS-232 adapter and 2) USB soundcard, for hooking up to ham radio gear.
3) USB attached AX.25 Terminal Node Controller (which hooks up to other ham radio gear).
4) Sheevaplug debug port, providing JTAG and console interfaces.
One thing I'd like to understand is whether or not the N900 is now expected to be able to provide a USB-Net interface to connected hosts. Can anyone offer any insight in this regard?
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2009-09-21
, 20:14
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Posts: 11,700 |
Thanked: 10,045 times |
Joined on Jun 2006
@ North Texas, USA
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#137
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Next device needs to have two micro USB ports. 
__________________
Nokia Developer Champion
Different <> Wrong | Listen - Judgment = Progress | People + Trust = Success
My personal site: http://texrat.net
Nokia Developer Champion
Different <> Wrong | Listen - Judgment = Progress | People + Trust = Success
My personal site: http://texrat.net
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2009-09-21
, 20:19
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Posts: 459 |
Thanked: 669 times |
Joined on Sep 2007
@ The DMV
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#138
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The real world use case that would come into play here for me is the business meeting. What frequently happens is that a colleague or a client would hand me a usb flash drive with presentation files or other data. This is often the quickest way of file transfer, especially if we are at a meeting site where one or more of the participants does not have e-mail access.
Honestly though, I've never used the OTG feature on my n800 simply because the reality is that I would always bring my laptop to a business presentation--the USB issue is pretty much moot for a laptop. I doubt that the laptop will lose its relevance for me anytime soon, especially for instances where I am doing presentation work.
So net, not having OTG is not such a big deal for me in the here and now. But if the vision is to have the eventual successors of the n900 be a true replacement for the laptop, I do see how not having a means of sharing data physically could be a miss.
Honestly though, I've never used the OTG feature on my n800 simply because the reality is that I would always bring my laptop to a business presentation--the USB issue is pretty much moot for a laptop. I doubt that the laptop will lose its relevance for me anytime soon, especially for instances where I am doing presentation work.
So net, not having OTG is not such a big deal for me in the here and now. But if the vision is to have the eventual successors of the n900 be a true replacement for the laptop, I do see how not having a means of sharing data physically could be a miss.
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2009-09-21
, 20:29
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Posts: 10 |
Thanked: 3 times |
Joined on Sep 2009
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#139
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Hello! I'm new here and I have little bad english writing skills but I hope you'll understand me.
So I have two cases where I need usb support and both are very important. At the moment I usually have Acer Aspire One with me and that sucks.
What I need is a way to get files open from usb memory stick. I meet my business partner etc. and I have to get open documents or music from his usb stick. And that must be possible everywhere, not only in office. So is there a way without usb host support. And dont tell me to use mmc cards etc. because I can't make the choice what my partners will use.
Second thing is Enttec Open DMX usb product that I use daily. I or my employee have to test and adjust lights with this product and we can be then near the roof or other difficult position so smaller device is better. I know that enttec works somehow over the serial so it might be possible to complete it that way somehow.. but i have no skills to star mod the device itself so any ideas with that?
I also saw the link to bluetooth usb hub device but I cannot find any store where to order it. So does it really exists or is it a fake or something?
Last edited by Ratva; 2009-09-21 at 20:45.
So I have two cases where I need usb support and both are very important. At the moment I usually have Acer Aspire One with me and that sucks.
What I need is a way to get files open from usb memory stick. I meet my business partner etc. and I have to get open documents or music from his usb stick. And that must be possible everywhere, not only in office. So is there a way without usb host support. And dont tell me to use mmc cards etc. because I can't make the choice what my partners will use.
Second thing is Enttec Open DMX usb product that I use daily. I or my employee have to test and adjust lights with this product and we can be then near the roof or other difficult position so smaller device is better. I know that enttec works somehow over the serial so it might be possible to complete it that way somehow.. but i have no skills to star mod the device itself so any ideas with that?
I also saw the link to bluetooth usb hub device but I cannot find any store where to order it. So does it really exists or is it a fake or something?
Last edited by Ratva; 2009-09-21 at 20:45.
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2009-09-21
, 20:37
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Posts: 3,397 |
Thanked: 1,212 times |
Joined on Jul 2008
@ Netherlands
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#140
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Personally, I do not like to have cables on my mobile device because it makes me feel immobile. Plop, oops it unplugs, trip over the wire, and so on. Oops, can't take it with me, it has to stay plugged. Oops, can't find the cable. Forgot it somewhere. Can't have it in the hand, the cables are in the way. And have to be careful with all kind of converters. Some of them break easily.
So in your use case you'd need USB cable, a portable HDD, and a portable DVD writer, a USB hub, an adapter for your USB hub or DVD writer, and an adapter for your N8x0. The weight and size and cost of these devices is considerable compared to a laptop with 1 GHz, 256 MB RAM, DVD writer, and Linux booting into X with k3b. Which, if you leave the adapter, also would not need power for say 2 hours, and supports sleep/hibernate. And when you don't need to use your DVD writer (I guess usually...) you simply have your N900 with its microUSB cable to power it up.
2) If USB host mode is very important for you you will hack around the lack of this feature. So lets think of the alternatives. For example, what do you think about that BlueTooth to USB adapter? Is it a viable option?
Peripheral for a PC? In so many ways its able to replace a PC/laptop/netbook/smartphone! Why neglect those? Only because it doesn't support USB host mode?
Come on. I bet those people who shoot a picture with N900 with acceptable quality and upload this to MySpace or Facebook within 5 seconds over 3G are going to disagree.
And, frankly, no, not every opinion is worth equal. Because some opinions revolve around a unique use case which simply is not common, or was result of a tough design choice which caters a more common need.
Originally Posted by klinglerware
They could e-mail it (even internal over WiFi), they could put it on SD (much smaller too), you could carry your BlueTooth to USB adapter, you could carry your N8x0, or you could ask them to copy it to your SD card using USB to SD converter.
The real world use case that would come into play here for me is the business meeting. What frequently happens is that a colleague or a client would hand me a usb flash drive with presentation files or other data. This is often the quickest way of file transfer, especially if we are at a meeting site where one or more of the participants does not have e-mail access.
Originally Posted by BruceL
A PC? That isn't a mobile device. I thought the point of N900 host mode + portable device was that it was mobile, portable and can be used during or after traveling. A portable DVD even requires a USB powered hub, so you could not use it while in a bus or train (unless you travel business class), while you could use a laptop or netbook with dvd.
I don't carry it around. I do sometimes pack my portable DVD drive though.
BUT, if my Nxx0 cannot connect to a HDD/DVD then I have to also own and maintain a PC so that I can access them when I need to. I don't want to have to purchase and maintain a PC just so that I can get data to/from a HDD/DVD when I need to. (For awhile I used my N800 as my only computing device. Recently it has become too slow for newer web-pages and I have needed a larger screen to run ddd. Thus I have begun to carry a small laptop/mouse/power-supply/phone/phone's power-supply and I find I leave the N800 home. I would love to go to just a phone an its power supply. But I need USB to do that.)
So in your use case you'd need USB cable, a portable HDD, and a portable DVD writer, a USB hub, an adapter for your USB hub or DVD writer, and an adapter for your N8x0. The weight and size and cost of these devices is considerable compared to a laptop with 1 GHz, 256 MB RAM, DVD writer, and Linux booting into X with k3b. Which, if you leave the adapter, also would not need power for say 2 hours, and supports sleep/hibernate. And when you don't need to use your DVD writer (I guess usually...) you simply have your N900 with its microUSB cable to power it up.
Originally Posted by fnordianslip
1) If you look at everything the N900 can do, it is an awesome convergence device. The lack of USB host mode does not negate the many new features it delivers.
[...] and I was hoping that the N900 would be a good step forwards towards convergence nirvana, allowing me to lighten my load.
2) If USB host mode is very important for you you will hack around the lack of this feature. So lets think of the alternatives. For example, what do you think about that BlueTooth to USB adapter? Is it a viable option?
It seems that it isn't though, as it would appear that the N900 is designed to be just another peripheral for a PC
Come on. I bet those people who shoot a picture with N900 with acceptable quality and upload this to MySpace or Facebook within 5 seconds over 3G are going to disagree.
And, frankly, no, not every opinion is worth equal. Because some opinions revolve around a unique use case which simply is not common, or was result of a tough design choice which caters a more common need.
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Goosfraba! All text written by allnameswereout is public domain unless stated otherwise. Thank you for sharing your output!
Goosfraba! All text written by allnameswereout is public domain unless stated otherwise. Thank you for sharing your output!
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| awesomeness in the works, boulevard of broken deals, host, i am the dealbreaker, inspector gadget lies, mobidapter is a scam, nokia fanbois, otg, over 9000, usb, usbcontrol |
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