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christexaport is offline christexaport
2009-09-28 , 02:57
Posts: 1,589 | Thanked: 720 times | Joined on Aug 2009 @ Arlington (DFW), Texas
#61
of course not. iPhone has no haptics or T9 support. T9 with one hand is faster and more accurate than QWERTY in portrait. If not for the large amount of people that live life using QWERTY at work, making it hard to switch between for some, QWERTY wouldn't be so popular. The fact is, many people that didn't grow up SMS crazy haven't even given T9 a real chance, so they don't know that its actually faster and more accurate.
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Texrat is offline Texrat
2009-09-28 , 03:26
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#62
I gave T9 a chance and it slowed me down. Way down. My brain just doesn't work well with it although I would like it to. So for text, I'll take landscape mode any day.
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christexaport is offline christexaport
2009-09-28 , 04:48
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#63
texrat, you have to avoid the qwerty keyboard and use predictive for a month or two, and I bet you exceed anything you can do with mini qwerty. I learned years ago, and haven't looked back. But if you work with qwerty everyday, it makes it hard to switch all of the time. But its proven tech as far as I'm concerned.
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TrackSol is offline TrackSol
2009-09-28 , 05:34
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#64
Originally Posted by ogahyellow View Post
Creating the dashboard and widgets with both landscape and portrait mode support seems like a real pain. The widgets are not grid aligned like on many competitors, so rotating could cause some confusing moments.
I agree. Regardless of the method used to rotate the screen (automatic or user directed), how will the items on the desktop rearrange themselves? IMHO this will make the UI look ugly and inconsitant.

Originally Posted by ogahyellow View Post
The big thing to me is that there are only 4 use cases that are personally relevant for portrait mode.
  1. Phone
  2. Calculator
  3. Note tablet w/ stylus
  4. Music player
I can imagine visually pleasing and effective landscape layouts for all of these.

One thing to consider is when using the device, how often will the user be required to switch between landscape and portrait because this will make the user fumble with the device quite a lot. For example, currently the phone application is fixed to portrait. Contacts is in landscape. So every time you place a call you're switching from landscape to portrait and back. If you're in an application and a call comes in, again, same thing. IMHO this is very inconvenient.

I do see the one handed convenience of potrait mode however there doesn't seem to be a good solution accepted by all. Each suggested implementation creates its own set of problems. Thus I believe a single layout throughout the UI is ideal as it results in the least amount of difficulties and problems.

Originally Posted by christexaport View Post
ogahyellow, assuming those are the only relevant portrait mode use cases totally ignores one of the greatest devices of the decade, the N95, which ushered in the totally portrait mobile computing we see today. You can do ANYthing in portrait with relative ease and convenience, as the N95 showed.
I don't have any experience with the N95, however it seems like there is no other option than to use that device in portrait mode. If you don't have to switch layouts then you will learn to be efficient with the device by force and not by choice. I'm not saying that potrait doesn't have it's uses. I'm only saying that having a device that can support both creates a headache for programmers and an inconvenience for users (no matter how cool it looks the first few times you auto rotate).

Originally Posted by christexaport View Post
You might need to research the N95 and N97's rabid user base and find out exactly what can be done in one hand in portrait nowadays.
The N97's home screen's widgets are laid out in a grid pattern that is fixed in either layout. Additionaly, the UI in symbian isn't as flexible as Maemo5. This is the distinct and important difference since in Fremantle you can move any object on the homescreen around.

If developers want to make their application in a specific layout to maximize the application's effectiveness, that is their right. I however do not belive automatic rotation should be implemented at the dashboard/desktop/UI level.
Last edited by TrackSol; 2009-09-28 at 05:36.
 
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kryptoniankid17 is offline kryptoniankid17
2009-09-28 , 05:58
Posts: 297 | Thanked: 54 times | Joined on Sep 2009 @ new jersey, usa
#65
Originally Posted by ogahyellow View Post
Creating the dashboard and widgets with both landscape and portrait mode support seems like a real pain. The widgets are not grid aligned like on many competitors, so rotating could cause some confusing moments. A developer could have input on to if there is a memory footprint increase of having to maintain 2 positions for everything.

The big thing to me is that there are only 4 use cases that are personally relevant for portrait mode.
  1. Phone
  2. Calculator
  3. Note tablet w/ stylus
  4. Music player
that is a good one does the media player work in portrait. it would be really inconvenient during a workout. especially running.
 
TrackSol is offline TrackSol
2009-09-28 , 06:11
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#66
Originally Posted by kryptoniankid17 View Post
that is a good one does the media player work in portrait. it would be really inconvenient during a workout. especially running.
Doesn't the N900 support stereo bluetooth audio? You could leave it on the treadmill and listen with bluetooth headphones.
 
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christexaport is offline christexaport
2009-09-28 , 06:19
Posts: 1,589 | Thanked: 720 times | Joined on Aug 2009 @ Arlington (DFW), Texas
#67
for everyone making comments for ASR, theres a thread for that, and we're taking this off topic. Let's continue those comments here:
http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php...hlight=support
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christexaport is offline christexaport
2009-09-28 , 06:31
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#68
Originally Posted by TrackSol View Post
I don't have any experience with the N95, however it seems like there is no other option than to use that device in portrait mode.
No, you can rotate two separate ways. Either by ASR or by using the slide to switch from portrait (with the keypad showing) or landscape (with the media buttons showing). And not allowing the switch will just repel some users, and I'm not sure that is ever a good idea.

I'm only saying that having a device that can support both creates a headache for programmers and an inconvenience for users (no matter how cool it looks the first few times you auto rotate).
look at it this way, since this is probably how many feel. If you add it, you take NIT's from being attractive to the 300k+ that already have them plus the 17 million+ N95 owners that have waited over 2 years for a suitable upgrade, not including the iPhone, WinMo, an Blackberry users wanting something more powerful and just as versatile. More users equal more development and marketing, and possibly more support from big third party developers.

So a slight inconvenience could mean better things for Maemo.


The N97's home screen's widgets are laid out in a grid pattern that is fixed in either layout. Additionaly, the UI in symbian isn't as flexible as Maemo5. This is the distinct and important difference since in Fremantle you can move any object on the homescreen around.
I fully understand that. I don't think its impossible, though, so why be scared to try? Flying in space was hard too, but NASA got it done. We're much smarter than them... or maybe not, but I'm just saying
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2009-09-28 , 07:05
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#69
Originally Posted by christexaport View Post
texrat, you have to avoid the qwerty keyboard and use predictive for a month or two, and I bet you exceed anything you can do with mini qwerty. I learned years ago, and haven't looked back. But if you work with qwerty everyday, it makes it hard to switch all of the time. But its proven tech as far as I'm concerned.
Used T9 and was really fast using it before moving to qwerty and tried T9 and Qwerty at the same time on the N97.
But my personal preference draws me back to qwerty. I know quite a lot of people who use the N95 and would rather use the multi-press instead of T9 even after trying to convince them of the advantages of T9. Lets not generalize that everyone loves T9
 
PetriS is offline PetriS
2009-09-28 , 07:16
Posts: 15 | Thanked: 51 times | Joined on Sep 2009 @ Helsinki
#70
Originally Posted by TrackSol View Post
For example, currently the phone application is fixed to portrait. Contacts is in landscape. So every time you place a call you're switching from landscape to portrait and back. If you're in an application and a call comes in, again, same thing. IMHO this is very inconvenient.
I visited Nokia flagship store in Helsinki today to check this on the prototype N900. Both phone application (dialer) and contact list can be used in both portrait and landscape, with auto rotation unless the keyboard is drawn out. Perhaps you meant a hypothetical case when the dialer is fixed in portrait by users choice -- it is possible too.

I was a bit suprised, however, that the simple looking
sms, and on-screen keyboard were only landscape. Did not try calculator or notifications.

The firmware was old 34-8 if I remember correctly.

I am happy -- my use cases for single handed portrait would be checking the just arrived sms and answering/placing a call. Only rarely also writing a sms on an on-screen keyboard -- the fixed keyboard is way better. As for media player, for controlling music single-handedly I would mostly use remote control buttons in some headset, not sure if it is possible here. Browser portrait mode may be coming too (see Michele here).
Last edited by PetriS; 2009-09-28 at 13:25. Reason: Visited Nokia flagship store in Helsinki, and corrected my assumptions
 
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