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sharper is offline sharper
2009-11-21 , 17:25
Posts: 189 | Thanked: 121 times | Joined on Oct 2009
#31
Originally Posted by fms View Post
So, you really think that a bytecode interpreter is not Java?
You certainly could make a Java compliant JVM which is just a simple bytecode interpreter however the bytecode produced for Android is not Java compliant and it lacks a JIT which is a feature of pretty much every JVM out there,
 
fms is offline fms
2009-11-21 , 17:31
Posts: 1,418 | Thanked: 1,541 times | Joined on Feb 2008
#32
Originally Posted by sharper View Post
You certainly could make a Java compliant JVM which is just a simple bytecode interpreter
I really could? But, I guess, nobody has ever done it so far?

however the bytecode produced for Android is not Java compliant and it lacks a JIT which is a feature of pretty much every JVM out there,
So, you mean Android apps are not programmed in Java?
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Rushmore is offline Rushmore
2009-11-21 , 17:36
Posts: 1,255 | Thanked: 393 times | Joined on Oct 2009 @ US
#33
Bratag made a great camera app for the G1 that made the camera usable. Droid users could sure use you because the camera app SUCKS. I wonder if it really is a software issue or really hardware (crappy camera components).

He can tell us the overhead horrors of Android. Bratag, please take a deeeep breath before explaining and stay away from the whiskey (Android probably drove him to drink)
 
Laughing Man is offline Laughing Man
2009-11-21 , 17:42
Posts: 4,556 | Thanked: 1,624 times | Joined on Dec 2007
#34
So Rushmore.. speaking of drinking..

How's that WIld Turkey? I have a fellow graduate student who's from Kentucky (and another professor) who both drink Wild Turkey lol.
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Originally Posted by ysss View Post
They're maemo and MeeGo...

"Meamo!" sounds like what Zorro would say to catherine zeta jones... after she slaps him for looking at her dirtily...
 
sharper is offline sharper
2009-11-21 , 17:42
Posts: 189 | Thanked: 121 times | Joined on Oct 2009
#35
Originally Posted by fms View Post
I really could? But, I guess, nobody has ever done it so far?
Come on stop playing games. You know exactly what I'm talking about. Yes the first Java JVMs were bytecode interpreters and there are possibly still some out there for some platforms however modern JVMs have JIT.

Since performance is what people are complaining about with regard to "Java/Android" the lack of JIT is a defining characteristic and why I highlighted that it's just a bytecode interpreter. If you make performance assumptions for Java based on experience with Android you'll be completely wrong.

So, you mean Android apps are not programmed in Java?
Android applications are written in the Java language syntax yes but they don't use the Java platform or run as Java on the phone.

Google also makes a toolkit that lets you write javascript applications as Java. That's not "Java" either, that's a Java framework that lets you write javascript/ecmascript.
 
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javispedro is offline javispedro
2009-11-21 , 17:52
Posts: 2,355 | Thanked: 5,249 times | Joined on Jan 2009 @ Barcelona
#36
Originally Posted by Rushmore View Post
Do you try the one with Linux or the stock app?
It was Linux, but I don't know exactly which snes emu family.
 
fms is offline fms
2009-11-21 , 17:55
Posts: 1,418 | Thanked: 1,541 times | Joined on Feb 2008
#37
Originally Posted by sharper View Post
You know exactly what I'm talking about. Yes the first Java JVMs were bytecode interpreters and there are possibly still some out there for some platforms however modern JVMs have JIT.
Of course I do. I am trying to figure out whether you know what you are taking about though.

Android applications are written in the Java language syntax yes but they don't use the Java platform or run as Java on the phone.
If Android applications are written in Java, then Android uses Java. How that Java works is a secondary issue.
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Rushmore is offline Rushmore
2009-11-21 , 18:20
Posts: 1,255 | Thanked: 393 times | Joined on Oct 2009 @ US
#38
Originally Posted by Laughing Man View Post
So Rushmore.. speaking of drinking..

How's that WIld Turkey? I have a fellow graduate student who's from Kentucky (and another professor) who both drink Wild Turkey lol.
I was actually a Jack Daniels drinker, but stopped that stuff after my Marine years

"Just" beer now

I tried some GBA games that run poorly on other emulators including the G1:

Doom 2 = Little better but still not playable at all
Top Gear Rally = Playable, but perhaps 80% speed.
Duke Nukem = Not much better
Drome Racers = Very playable now


Seriously, the N900 should perform even better than Droid. Quake 3 already proves this. I can not see Quake 3 playing that smooth on Droid.
 
sharper is offline sharper
2009-11-21 , 18:24
Posts: 189 | Thanked: 121 times | Joined on Oct 2009
#39
Originally Posted by fms View Post
If Android applications are written in Java, then Android uses Java. How that Java works is a secondary issue.
Java is a combination of language syntax, platform libraries and runtime.

Android uses the language syntax but does not use the platform libraries or the runtime. Consequently Android is not "Java". It's particularly inappropriate to draw runtime performance comparisons based on Android when it doesn't use the Java runtime.

So "how that Java works" is not a secondary issue. I also gave you an example of another toolkit which lets you write something using the Java language syntax but produces output which is obviously not "Java".
 
fms is offline fms
2009-11-21 , 18:48
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#40
Originally Posted by sharper View Post
Java is a combination of language syntax, platform libraries and runtime.
Well, C/C++ running on ARM is called C/C++. C/C++ running on x86 is still called C/C++. C/C++ running on 6502 is still C/C++. C/C++ without STDIO library is still called C/C++. C/C++ without STRING library is still C/C++. And so forth.

Why exactly is Java any different, aside from the bogus argument that "Sun defines it this way"?
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