Originally Posted by LouisLoh

1. Cut the condescending tones, it's apparent even in this thread itself, it really puts new users off. (i.e. include a proper disclaimer e.g. THIS MAY BRICK YOUR DEVICE, rather than IF YOU DONT EVEN KNOW, ITS NOT FOR YOU).

2. We're talking about a community that is focused on catering to the needs of end users (i.e. that means spoon feeding, solutions), and I will tell you that majority of end users do not care about all the technicalities, jargons, programming; they wanna get the freaking job done. We have to consider that these end users comprise often not only geeky people. E.g. a businessman would probably visit this forum once a month to look for a guide on installing a particular app, do you really expect him to learn all the technicalities you throw at him?

3. We're not asking for talk.maemo (i.e. TALK.MAEMO MUST BECOME AN OPEN PLATFORM) to become that kind of community, but we're just saying that should such a community be absent, it would scare many non-geeks (i.e. the masses) off, hence the thread title.

4. Solutions include:

a. transform the community
b. point us to another forum where end users can find what they want

5. Should the solutions not be considered, Maemo will DEFINITELY lose a lot of potential customers (i.e. the NOOBS and the 4-YEAR OLDS). If you say these customers are not appreciated, I surrender. But I say theses customers are the exact engine of growth that Maemo needs.

6. Please be reminded that we're again not complaining about anything, we're making suggestions. If you think otherwise, perhaps you are really closed. The above are simply requests, not demands. It's ultimately the choice of the community.

Originally Posted by elimoon8

I'm all for helping new users, but I respectfully disagree with that statement. I'm pretty sure the attitude here will remain the "search, then post" attitude. I really can't disagree with that attitude, though. Everyone here is looking for something different. If the volunteers here were to try to spoon-feed everyone, nothing would ever get done. Telling someone to look through a 15 page long thread may be tough on new users, but until we have a huge developer population that can deal with problems on an individual basis, we can't have developers spending too much time answering individual questions. A somewhat simplified how-to by a developer for an application should suffice (I think you mention this later in your post).

Originally Posted by davedickson

What I've have been trying to say from my first post

Originally Posted by JayOnThaBeat

Nope, I don't care. Why should I? Why does everyone who uses this board have to care about "catering" to everyone else? At my work, I have to cater to our clients / customers, because I am paid to do so.

I am not paid to care here. Did I miss the part of the sign-up process that said that I am subservient (sp?) to all other visitors?

I'm pretty sure there was no such clause, or I wouldn't have registered.

Early in this thread (this thread whose title in itself is b*tching about the board), I was legitimately trying to help, based on the information given. Here is a summary of my post:

Code:

<link>

This, maybe?

I was then attacked for being rude, and told re-read his post. I am a big proponent of living up to the labels given to me. I was labeled "rude", so I lived up to it. That's how I roll.

In closing, I do not represent Maemo. I defy anyone reading to find a board where everyone is happy and cheerful, and willing to take whatever bulls**t is handed to them. I started posting in a thread whose title insults the senior users of the board, who I have found very helpful.

So yeah, you can hate me, but you can't say that I'm wrong (unless you want to be wrong... then I'll say that you're wrong... but isn't that what threads titled "Is Maemo.org The N900's Real Competition?." are for?)

Originally Posted by elimoon8

Duly noted (I should have quoted your post when I wrote my post).
You can't expect a developer to post a how-to, though. It's their application/tweak, therefore they can distribute the information they way they want to/need to (it also depends on how much time they have in their lives, etc.). You can politely ask other users for a simple how-to (which I can see has been happening) while telling them explicitly that you understand all of the risks involved (which has not been happening).

Originally Posted by LouisLoh

But as I've said, the opportunity cost of not providing spoonfeeding is the loss of many non-geeky customers. It's the choice of the community, as mentioned earlier - either spoonfeed and allow user base to grow as rapidly as possible, even though each user may not be that independent (and I understand that this can be a burden for the community), or ensure that each and every user is responsible and thus putting off many new users, but in the exchange get a more cohesive community.

....

Ultimately, your choice.

Originally Posted by JayOnThaBeat

I was then attacked for being rude, and told re-read his post. I am a big proponent of living up to the labels given to me. I was labeled "rude", so I lived up to it. That's how I roll.

In closing, I do not represent Maemo. I defy anyone reading to find a board where everyone is happy and cheerful, and willing to take whatever bulls**t is handed to them. I started posting in a thread whose title insults the senior users of the board, who I have found very helpful.

So yeah, you can hate me, but you can't say that I'm wrong (unless you want to be wrong... then I'll say that you're wrong... but isn't that what threads titled "Is Maemo.org The N900's Real Competition?." are for?)

Originally Posted by JayOnThaBeat

You yourself said the purpose of tmo was to "cater" to people, as if the people with knowledge are the "butlers" for the uninformed.

I believe the purpose of the board is to primarily develop for the platform, brainstorm, and fix bugs in the system / software. Informing others is secondary.

Again, anything I say shouldn't matter, because I am not one of those in the know, but you're basically saying that those in the know have to be everyone's b*tch, or the platform will fail.

Doesn't the platform have a major corporation behind it?

Originally Posted by JayOnThaBeat

I believe the purpose of the board is to primarily develop for the platform, brainstorm, and fix bugs in the system / software. Informing others is secondary.

Again, anything I say shouldn't matter, because I am not one of those in the know, but you're basically saying that those in the know have to be everyone's b*tch, or the platform will fail.

Doesn't the platform have a major corporation behind it?