I totally agree and I've never considered programming a skill that should be necessary for anyone but programmers. That attitude is a big problem for the OSS community.

Well, don't try to talk things neat. I know many examples around me, reaching from young to my age (29) who just live. Barely a hobby, obligation and most of all the lack of responsibility an credibility (which bugs me most).
So today it's all about hanging around with others (what I did/do as well), doing party (what I did/do as well) and then complain about the lack of spare time which they could spend to do something productive (what I don't/didn't) e.g. contribute to some sort of community.
Well, okay, in some way they contribute to a community... FaceBook, StudiVZ, ${NameThem} but is that productive? Not in my eyes...

Don't get me wrong, my oppinion is based on MY observations, but I guess if you average over all the kids/adolescents, you might end up with a similar conclusion.

Yeah, well, but if we have a lack of knowledge, but know what all my friends did RIGHT NOW (thanks to twitter, SMS ${NameIt}) what knowledge can I contribute? To gain knowledge in something you have to be interested in something (in most cases), and if there is a lack of interest there is a lack of knowledge.

Take many questions in this forum. This one was the last which came across:
"Can you guide me step by step to replace a file on the CMD?"

I guess you read enough similar.

Everyone started... but some just are not willing to learn and put some brain into it. Thy just want it. NOW and as easy to digest as possible.

And just one more story I experience yesterday:
A girl was scratching a barely noticeable pimple on her arm. I looked seriously at here and said: Oh my good, this looks like Leprosy (Lebra, Hansen's disease). She looked at me and asked "Whats that?" And I thought this would be a very plain joke... apparently not... All I could answer: "Look it up on Wikipedia". I should mention that this girl was 22 years old and is studying at a university. (This in particular made my response so extensive)

Cheers
Bjoern

I don't know if the current generation is more intellectually lazy than previous generations. After all, how many of us have read through a complete list of "great books" like the 60-volume Great Books of the Western World? We may have read more of them than the youngsters but who is to say the one's we missed are no longer important or the one's we read are still important or the differing books our children read are not important?

I think the problem is that the skills needed in each generation are different. When I grew up, search meant physically flipping through a card catalog or scanning printed indices. Cut and paste was done through cutting and pasting and was only of importance in publishing. Few people other than secretaries knew how to type. Now, online search, cut and pasted mashups, and keyboarding are considered basic skills.

As far as programming, it's really only of use to programmers. However, at its core, it is based on two things that I feel everyone should study - Boolean algebra and set theory. My secondary education touched on the second and I didn't even hear of the first until I went to college. Now they are part of my sons' core middle school math curriculum.

I graduated high school in 1979. I watched as my younger brothers received an increasingly inferior education as zero tolerance, no-pass-no-play, "don't reward high achievers and make the others feel bad" and other well-intended meddling tweaks diminished the actual education. Far less was expected of my youngest brother than was of me. I saw it in his homework, his projects, his grades, and his critical & abstract thinking skills. Fortunately college got him back on track.

Now my kids are even worse off. They think I'm crazy for demanding more of them than their test-oriented teachers do.

I was taught to learn. My kids are taught to game tests. I got zeroes for missing work. I now see teacher's strike it off a grade report with no penalty.

Caring parents these days find themselves supplementing school work. It isn't easy... especially when the kids fight back ("no other parents expect this!!!"). Yes, this generation really is being done wrong, and will be at a disadvantage... at least, kids in the US.

I'm not a parent, but I see similar things on this side of the pond too .. it's depressing

Agreed. In the US we have been shooting for the lowest common denominator for far too long. I'd rather kids be challenged, as I was.

My kids think the old excitement over moon launches and first shuttle landing was silly. That bothers me. They are way too cynical and in too large a comfort zone.

<on topic>
Started programming on my ZX81 (TS1000 to you Tex) in 1981 at the tender age of 13, moved on up in the BASIC ranks, then to Uni to do Maths and switched to Compsci cos I could do it better - Pascal, C, etc etc. <insert language here> Then reverted to Hypercard for some neato UI concepts, as well as Revolution. <aside> porting such an environment to Maemo would be the business... <\aside>
But I'm a researcher, so don't code too much beyond proofs of concept which can be safely ignored when they don't work. So I still enjoy it.
<\on topic>

Education - I dunno, it's difficult to say what's best because there is no one way to learn. Some people do it better than others one way, and so on. To make it more interesting for my kids, one of whom started school this year, we're sending them to a french school. Watching the brain bend around a new language at that age is an education in itself. The resultant education system, at least here, seems better suited for understanding why rather than how at the outset. I think that's fine because the how is much easier to achieve when the why is in place. But that's my style of learning (see above).

We're taking them to Florida to see a shuttle takeoff in July though - and man are they excited. No, I refuse to take them to Disney-anything. But they understand *why* the shuttle is such a big deal.

Kathy, in fact I can make my own clothes, but lack a sewing machine so must do it by hand. Too slow, so I go to the shop. I can cook too. That is more like programming. But I make a kick-*** Saag Paneer... (actually, anything veggie and Indian and hot...)

Interesting thread... another perspective to add perhaps.

I don't code applications. I can code the mess out of things within a browser environment using CSS and HTML (and some shreds of JS) to pretty much build or prototype anything. My graphic abilities range from still loving hand drawings with charcoal and colored pencils (still life flora and hands usually) to photo manipulation for various items in any graphic editor (PS, Gimp, Illustrator, Flash, Inkscape, etc.). While I would love to code applications, mentally, I get a weird block in doing so (impatience plays in here), and usually end up on tangents asking of the value of my input towards the output's aims.

On the other side of that I read about 300 websites of content per day; read a few books per month (always non-fiction), and given the most minimal of facts can usually spot patterns, processes, and failure points towards subjects that I know well and don't know well.

I graduated high school in 1997 (Texrat graduated when I was born, yikes); by the time I got to that point, the impression that you needed to solve problems with varying styles and types of computing knowledge wasn't just something that became clear, but curriculums were under heavy pressure to change - if they had not already. While I only got regular use of a home PC in 1996, it was right before I graduated college that it started making sense *not* to have PC labs on college campuses. What's the solution to enabling a fuller education when things change that quickly...

...and because of how fast things have changed, those with the skills to measure and control change were best positioned to adapt to the changing type of life choices that would be presented. Elementary and high schools are only just getting the types of teachers and tools that are able to teach towards solutions, versus just teaching the tools and hoping that the students meld these into solutions. The tools teaching is indeed lacking, but that's only because the attention to what the solution is hasn't kept up with it.

Whether that makes kids lazy because they can't code or not is up for debate. But given the intellectual capacity for change and solutions-driving that we do, we can't say that the ball is in someone else's court to change the output. We have a (significant) say on the input after all.

Just a reflection on reading this. When I was a kid we had libraries. Most homes couldn't afford an encyclopedia. But the best learning was from other people. You asked stuff, and people sat down with you and took the time to answer. I believe psychologists still reckon that the best learning experience is within a 'teacher-pupil' learning relationship. That human connection for the passing on of learning is something that every generation has enjoyed except the current one.

I can read a wiki. I read the n900 manual before I got the device. I can search for a thread on a topic. But the very best learning experiences I've had in maemo have been from people who stepped up and said "Catch me on IRC and I'll talk you through it". I doub't I'd ever have lost my 'root-virginity' without a maemo-community member to hold my (virtual) hand. Of course, I don't expect that sort of treatment for all learning, but it has been the most encouraging - and has kept me engaged with the learning journey.

So maybe the kids asking 'tell me' 'explain it to me' are seeking that human-centred learning experience. We can hardly complain they're passive when our response to their thirst for knowledge is "Look it up on wikipedia".

I miss my Dad sharing his knowledge and wisdom while we did the dishes together now.

To each his/her own. For the most part the teacher-pupil model always slowed me down. My preference is "teach me very young how to solve it for myself, then get out of my way." That serves you well in forums and desert islands.