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Poll: What is your opinion about the migration to Moblin/RPM
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What is your opinion about the migration to Moblin/RPM

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fatalsaint is offline fatalsaint
2010-02-17 , 16:19
Posts: 3,428 | Thanked: 2,856 times | Joined on Jul 2008
#101
Originally Posted by titan View Post
basically he wants something like "apt-get upgrade libqt-*" which only selects
installed "libqt-*". There are several ways to query those package names
with dpkg and then you simply pass them to apt-get.
The problem here is.. running "apt-get install packagename" will also modify other packages, remove packages, etc as needed.

apt-get upgrade is really the only "safe" measure in apt that only upgrades things that only require other upgrades. Anything else works like a dist-upgrade, which is what I guess -F does NOT do.

But again.. I've never seen a need for this..
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jak is offline jak
2010-02-17 , 16:19
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#102
Originally Posted by fatalsaint View Post
Actually that's the opposite of what he says . dist-upgrade will upgrade a package allowing changes to other packages, including installing new ones or removing old ones. He said he didn't want that - which is what apt-get upgrade did... but he wants to do that only on a certain list of packages.

You're probably onto something with dselect.
Upgrading a single package is
Code:
apt-get install <package name>
.
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attila77 is offline attila77
2010-02-17 , 16:22
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#103
As said, we can chase around and see which features require one line in one system and two (or some bash-foo) in another, but the bottom line is after all these years they pretty much accumulated the same features. Things like OBS can make a difference, but the package format itself - hardly, being more of a question of familiarity and preference.


Originally Posted by Rob1n View Post
I've no idea - I've never built a debian package. I was responding to the comment that .deb "packages up the files with the permissions that they were given when you build the deb package". If there's a alternate way to specify these permissions with .debs, then I don't see it makes much difference which format you use.
Code:
‘stat  overrides’  are  a  way  to  tell dpkg to use a different 
owner or mode for a file when a package is installed. (note: I use
the word ‘file’ here, but in reality this can be any filesystem     
object that dpkg handles, including directories, devices, etc.). This
can be used to force programs that are normally setuid to be install without a setuid flag, or  only  executable  by  a  certain
group.
Sounds pretty much spot-on to me For those interested about the details, see http://man-wiki.net/index.php/8:dpkg-statoverride
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Rob1n is offline Rob1n
2010-02-17 , 16:22
Posts: 3,617 | Thanked: 2,412 times | Joined on Nov 2009 @ Cambridge, UK
#104
Originally Posted by fatalsaint View Post
Right, but how do you get the dependency names?? For example:

Code:
 dpkg -i MyOwnDebIMadeYay.deb && apt-get -f install
A single line just installed my package with dependency handling without using any loops, cut's, line editing/parsing, etc. Assuming, of course, my dependencies are in the repo's on my system, and that the package I'm installing doesn't depend on other weird crap.

How do I do that with RPM?
In fact (having actually read the manual), it's going to be dependent on the tool. Using yum you could do:
Code:
yum localinstall file.rpm
That will install the local RPM and pull in any dependencies from configured repositories.

Otherwise, you could probably use rpm with "--no-deps" to force installation, then "yum update" to pick up the dependencies.
 

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fatalsaint is offline fatalsaint
2010-02-17 , 16:22
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#105
Originally Posted by javispedro View Post
Yum has a feature where it will install rpms from disk with dependency checking. "how can I install a .deb from disk using apt-get" is a _very_ common question in fedora->debian newbies (see http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=880612 , http://www.mail-archive.com/ubuntu-b...sg1661126.html ), which is something I find pretty ironic considering the current context
Yum is not RPM vs DEB.. Yum is not universal.

Another problem I have with RPM's (and have already mentioned).. I have already specified no less than 5 primary managers for RPM: URPMI, Yast, Yum, Apt and up2date. Confusing much?

Nearly every DEB system I've encountered uses Apt by default.
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javispedro is offline javispedro
2010-02-17 , 16:25
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#106
But if you add apt-get to the dpkg side, you have to add yum or an alternative to the rpm side.

Originally Posted by fatalsaint View Post
Another problem I have with RPM's (and have already mentioned).. I have already specified no less than 5 primary managers for RPM: URPMI, Yast, Yum, Apt and up2date. Confusing much?
You're forgetting zypper, which is one MeeGo will not be using.

My opinion here is that fragmentation is good, but I don't plan to enter this one religious war (note debian has aptitude; in fact apt is deprecated).
Last edited by javispedro; 2010-02-17 at 17:30.
 
Rob1n is offline Rob1n
2010-02-17 , 16:31
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#107
Originally Posted by fatalsaint View Post
Yum is not RPM vs DEB..
Nor is Apt, to be fair.

Originally Posted by fatalsaint View Post
Nearly every DEB system I've encountered uses Apt by default.
And we only have a single OS to worry about here - yum offers these features, so if they're required (and MeeGo sticks with RPM), then yum is required as well. It really doesn't matter what RPM management tools random other distributions choose to use.


As I've said, I've got absolutely no preference myself. In my experience, there's nothing that's being done using DEBs in Maemo that can't be done with RPM, and there's also nothing that RPMs provide that we're lacking in the current DEBs.
 
fatalsaint is offline fatalsaint
2010-02-17 , 16:32
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#108
Originally Posted by javispedro View Post
But if you add apt-get to the dpkg side, you have to add yum or an alternative to the rpm side.
Except for as I said: Nearly anywhere you find DEB, you find APT. Not the case with RPM. So while I agree apt is a tool addon like Yum is an add-on to RPM.. Yum can't really be used to help the RPM argument because it's not everywhere by default. Apt is usually there by default.

You're forgetting zypper, which is the one MeeGo will be using.

My opinion here is that fragmentation is good, but I don't plan to enter this one religious war (note debian has aptitude; in fact apt is deprecated).
So.. they are changing to RPM *and* using yet another different addon tool for support?

Unbelievable. (this forum needs the smiley banging his head on a brick wall so I don't have to search for it everytime it's applicable )
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attila77 is offline attila77
2010-02-17 , 16:39
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#109
Originally Posted by Rob1n View Post
As I've said, I've got absolutely no preference myself. In my experience, there's nothing that's being done using DEBs in Maemo that can't be done with RPM, and there's also nothing that RPMs provide that we're lacking in the current DEBs.
Exactly, and all things equal, why change (rhetorical question, not directed at Rob1n) ? Moblin was also DEB until a little over a year ago, I don't believe Moblin devs forgot how to do DEBs. So they know DEBs, we know DEBs, the two formats are a fair match featurewise, OBS now supports DEBs, too, license info can be embedded in DEBs, Maemo 6 is DEB, so the reason to switch is... ?
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Rob1n is offline Rob1n
2010-02-17 , 16:42
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#110
Originally Posted by javispedro View Post
You're forgetting zypper, which is the one MeeGo will be using.
Where's that documented? I can't find anything concrete having searched for moblin + zypper and meego + zypper.
 

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