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Poll: Have you had charging or USB problems with your N900
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Have you had charging or USB problems with your N900

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cr0c0 is offline cr0c0
2010-02-26 , 17:37
Posts: 147 | Thanked: 228 times | Joined on Feb 2010 @ Toronto, Canada
#851
Originally Posted by Texrat View Post
I have to wonder about that. Typically in surface mount assembly, at least a small amount of adhesive is placed under the component body to secure it prior to wave or flow soldering. Did you note this to not be the case here?
No, there's no way to tell what's between the USB port and the PCB without breaking the port off (as too many N900 owners already did).

What I meant is that while the system board itself is mounted into the plastic housing of the N900, the USB port is not secured by anything except the system board. It has no reinforcement, no support, nothing. It's just surface mounted there. It doesn't even touch the hole in the plastic casing.
 

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les_garten is offline les_garten
2010-02-26 , 17:41
Posts: 1,283 | Thanked: 370 times | Joined on Sep 2009 @ South Florida
#852
Originally Posted by cr0c0 View Post
You make very good points, but anyone trying to calculate these forces would have to deal with a lot of guesses. Nokia will not release the exact details of the solder compound used, PCB preparation, soldering methods, etc.

Even slight variations in any of these factors can have dramatic effects, just think of the scandal Nvidia was involved in with their G84 and G86 core video cards. A minor error in specifying the correct solder compound led to a 30% failure rate of all those video cards, with more likely to fail in the future. Nvidia themselves set aside $200 million to correct the issue, although the damage may be much higher than that.

The only way to prove defects is to test these things. But you need to purchase a batch of N900s and have an independent lab test the forces required to break the USB port off. I'm guessing you'd need at least 4 units to test all cases (one for each axis, plus one for repeated straight, proper insertion and removal of the USB cable). Most likely you'd want more units for each case.

So we're talking thousands of dollars just in N900s, plus fees for the lab. Not going to happen.
Might happen. That's called "Class Action Lawsuit"
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les_garten is offline les_garten
2010-02-26 , 17:43
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#853
Originally Posted by cr0c0 View Post
Class actions make lawyers rich, they rarely help the consumers.
That's called "Righteous Indignation" and "Gettin' some Payback"
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Mara is offline Mara
2010-02-26 , 17:48
Posts: 1,310 | Thanked: 820 times | Joined on Mar 2006 @ Irving, TX
#854
Originally Posted by Texrat View Post
I have to wonder about that. Typically in surface mount assembly, at least a small amount of adhesive is placed under the component body to secure it prior to wave or flow soldering. Did you note this to not be the case here?
I don't think there is: The adhesive is only used for components that will be going through wave soldering. AFAIK Nokia (like most if not all manufacturers making pure SMT assemblies) only uses solder paste and reflow (IR), thus no adhesive needed.
 

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gabby131 is offline gabby131
2010-02-26 , 18:00
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#855
Originally Posted by cr0c0 View Post
And I'm using a late version, week 03/2010, took pictures and they look identical. Maybe Nokia increased the size of the pads, but I really can't see it making enough of a difference. The way the USB port is mounted, it has absolutely no support except from the bottom. Otherwise it's floating around the case.
as i posted, i have a 52/2009 manufacturing date (if that is called like that),
and no problems so far (but still concerned).

and you have a 2nd or 3rd production of n900. is there any way we can identify that Nokia already recognized the port issues and sorted it out when these 2010 productions of n900 are already in the market?

and some pre-production owners doesn't have any issues with the port. which means some people become a victim of a faulty n900. which also tells me that Nokia is inconsistent.
 
TA-t3 is offline TA-t3
2010-02-26 , 18:10
Posts: 3,841 | Thanked: 1,079 times | Joined on Nov 2006
#856
There is a problem with the voting system. Apparently there isn't a way to remove your vote so that you can re-vote. Obviously some of those who voted 'no problem yet' will end up with a broken USB connector later, and those people should be allowed to revoke their original vote and change it.
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cr0c0 is offline cr0c0
2010-02-26 , 18:17
Posts: 147 | Thanked: 228 times | Joined on Feb 2010 @ Toronto, Canada
#857
Originally Posted by gabby131 View Post
as i posted, i have a 52/2009 manufacturing date (if that is called like that),
and no problems so far (but still concerned).

and you have a 2nd or 3rd production of n900. is there any way we can identify that Nokia already recognized the port issues and sorted it out when these 2010 productions of n900 are already in the market?

and some pre-production owners doesn't have any issues with the port. which means some people become a victim of a faulty n900. which also tells me that Nokia is inconsistent.
Although my phone is 03/2010, I think they're all the same.

See, a much more reasonable explanation of the situation (rather than assuming Nokia made some changes that cannot be determined with the naked eye) is that Nokia did not change anything at all except their press releases. Not unlike Toyota removing floor mats I suppose.

I want to see pictures of new units that either use through mounted USB ports (highly unlikely since it requires a motherboard redesign) OR much larger solder pads OR a new plastic casing design that provides support for the USB port. That's when I'll believe Nokia did something about it.

Improving the technique for surface mounting the USB port won't help one bit if somehow the USB cable gets snagged and pulls sideways or downwards, or if the user tries to insert it upside down or is simply a butter fingers that cannot correctly align it with the port.
 

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sjgadsby is offline sjgadsby
2010-02-26 , 18:28
Posts: 5,335 | Thanked: 8,187 times | Joined on Mar 2007 @ Pennsylvania, USA
#858
Originally Posted by TA-t3 View Post
There is a problem with the voting system. Apparently there isn't a way to remove your vote so that you can re-vote.
Yes, the vBulletin polling system is designed more for quick, throw-away polls created for entertainment purposes than long-term, serious, statistics gathering. And beyond vBulletin's specific limitations, "Internet" + "poll" should start warning flags waving in the minds of everyone.
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systemparadox is offline systemparadox
2010-02-26 , 18:48
Posts: 4 | Thanked: 7 times | Joined on Feb 2010
#859
I bring good news!

I took my (2 week old!) N900 into the my local Nokia service centre and they said they could do it right there in 30 minutes, depending on how broken it is. Mine turned out to be more broken than they could do, so it will have to go back to Nokia, but it's freepost and you literally fill out the form.

Apparently it was on a Nokia bulletin in the last few days.

I asked about recalls and if anything is going to be done to stop this happening again and they said Nokia isn't just replacing that part. Apparently they've supplied a better designed connector which is being fitted instead.

I'm not totally sure what needs to be not broken for the service centres to fix it.

As annoying as it is having to send it away, I'm quite relieved that I'm not having to fight them as some people seem to.
 

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Texrat is offline Texrat
2010-02-26 , 18:53
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#860
Originally Posted by Mara View Post
I don't think there is: The adhesive is only used for components that will be going through wave soldering. AFAIK Nokia (like most if not all manufacturers making pure SMT assemblies) only uses solder paste and reflow (IR), thus no adhesive needed.
Ah, okay thanks. My background was mainly in military applications where we glued and sealed the **** out of everything.
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bad design, broken, charging, failure, hardware, loose, microusb, microusb port, n900, nokia, part, port, repair, return, surface mount, usb, usb port, warranty

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