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SubCore is offline SubCore
2010-02-26 , 20:07
Posts: 850 | Thanked: 626 times | Joined on Sep 2009 @ Vienna, Austria
#11
the distinction is between "Linux" and "GNU/Linux".

technically, "Linux" is just the kernel, that is correct, but usually when people talk about "Linux" they talk about distributions such as Ubuntu, Fedora or Debian, and that includes the GNU part of things as well.

saying something runs "Linux" implies that you can use the same software tools to write and compile software for it, giving you access to a huge amount of open code. but it just isn't true. Google does this intentionally, fraudulent advertising IMO.

you need completely different tools and libraries to write for a completely different environment. you don't write "Linux" programs... you're as far away from the kernel as you can get.

so yes, in my eyes, Android definitely isn't Linux. With Maemo you get nearly all of the standard Linux parts there are.
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Last edited by SubCore; 2010-02-26 at 20:10. Reason: i repeat myself...
 

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SubCore is offline SubCore
2010-02-26 , 20:14
Posts: 850 | Thanked: 626 times | Joined on Sep 2009 @ Vienna, Austria
#12
Originally Posted by tekplay View Post
Some Info..
http://www.kroah.com/log/linux/andro...-problems.html
thanks for that read!

didn't even know how bad it is already... if they fork their own kernel, they can not call it Linux anymore.
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david.hicks is offline david.hicks
2010-02-27 , 16:08
Posts: 42 | Thanked: 20 times | Joined on Feb 2010 @ Perth, WA
#13
It's more than the difference in user space. Google wrote a bunch of extensions to the standard kernel. The kernel developers consider these either badly implemented or unnecessary.

On top of that, Google presented the extras and said "there you are, they're finished" and refused to make any changes. The usual way to get stuff into the kernel is to work with the kernel team to get the code into a state they consider complete and suitable.

So the stuff was dropped, there is a technical and a political argument and the net result is that 'official' kernel from kernel.org cannot run underneath android.

I don't know how this would affect things like the dalvik VM. A guy at ubuntu made some progress porting the android and dalvik framework to more generic linux systems, but in the end google have still got a lot of closed source stuff on there that makes the system worthwhile - for instance all the stuff that enables login to google services.
 
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Flandry is offline Flandry
2010-02-27 , 21:00
Posts: 1,559 | Thanked: 1,786 times | Joined on Oct 2009 @ Boston
#14
Originally Posted by david.hicks View Post
but in the end google have still got a lot of closed source stuff on there that makes the system worthwhile - for instance all the stuff that enables login to google services.
And there's the rub. It wasn't clear to many people how much the wool was over their eyes about the "linux phone OS" called Android. I first realized it when the cease and desist was sent to that guy (cyanogen?) who was doing mods. It wasn't the C&D, but the realization that without the google specific bits android is completely worthless as a phone OS, and that Google is absolutely not opening up that part of it, that soured me on going Android. This is just the other shoe dropping on the google Android-is-linux propaganda.
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Accelemymote: make your accelerometer more joy-ful
 

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u2maemo is offline u2maemo
2010-02-27 , 21:29
Posts: 71 | Thanked: 19 times | Joined on Dec 2009
#15
refusing Android and waiting for device with real linux kernel is my choice.
 
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OranAgra is offline OranAgra
2010-03-01 , 20:30
Posts: 33 | Thanked: 15 times | Joined on Oct 2009 @ Israel
#16
I wrote an article in an effort to educate consumers of the faults and inherent problems of Android (among others).
I'll refer you to the thread where i posted it.
http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=46227
 
joelee is offline joelee
2010-03-12 , 23:07
Posts: 2 | Thanked: 8 times | Joined on Mar 2010 @ London
#17
Originally Posted by jorjino View Post
Yesterday I found this information about the last version of Linux Kernel 2.6.33.

It is interesting for me - has Maemo/MeeGo compatibility at this moment with Linux Kernel 2.6.33?
And is it so important?

Thank you in advance to all participants.
Regards.

Sorry to barge in you guys like this.

I'm an Android user and found this tread while googling Android & Linux.

I just wanted to point out the title of this tread is misleading. I am currently running a custom kernel 2.6.33 on my Nexus One. Android 2.1 runs happily on top of it. I can also run several linux programs outside of Android, like openvpn, rsync and dropbear (a ssh server).

Code:
# cat build.prop | grep ro.product.model
ro.product.model=Nexus One
# uname -a
Linux localhost 2.6.33-msm-teknologist-0.7 #1 PREEMPT Wed Mar 3 14:13:12 CET 2010 armv7l GNU/Linux
#
My point here is Android devices are as "Linux" as Maemo devices, but Android applications are more restricted to access the Linux layer than Maemo.

I like Maemo (still have my N700 since 2005), but I do not like the idea that only Nokia is releasing devices on Maemo. It is positive news on Maemo merging into Meego, and hopeful we'll get more powerful devices from more companies. That is the main criteria that will convinced me to switch.

Anyway, good luck with this forum, and I hope to return when I start to use Meego/Maemo again.

Joe.
Last edited by joelee; 2010-03-12 at 23:35.
 

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u2maemo is offline u2maemo
2010-03-13 , 02:37
Posts: 71 | Thanked: 19 times | Joined on Dec 2009
#18
hope to know when using Kernel 2.6.33, if libc6 and coreutils can be upgraded to latest one.
 
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SubCore is offline SubCore
2010-03-15 , 11:12
Posts: 850 | Thanked: 626 times | Joined on Sep 2009 @ Vienna, Austria
#19
Originally Posted by joelee View Post
My point here is Android devices are as "Linux" as Maemo devices, but Android applications are more restricted to access the Linux layer than Maemo.
cyanogenmod isn't android.
while it's great that it provides some of the GNU userland so you can run openvpn etc., you are talking about a custom OS which you flash on your device to have the gnu tools.
so it's not a valid argument to say that android can run (gnu) linux software, because those tools and libs are not part of android.
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joelee is offline joelee
2010-03-15 , 13:37
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#20
Originally Posted by SubCore View Post
cyanogenmod isn't android.
while it's great that it provides some of the GNU userland so you can run openvpn etc., you are talking about a custom OS which you flash on your device to have the gnu tools.
so it's not a valid argument to say that android can run (gnu) linux software, because those tools and libs are not part of android.
The title of this discussion is "Android is not compatible with Linux Kernel 2.6.33" and it is not an argument if Android is Linux.

SubCore is right when Android context is the Software platform. The Android platform in NOT Linux (as Java is not Linux), but the fact is Android runs on top of a Linux kernel and it needs a strip-down Linux environment to operate. This makes my Android device a Linux device. I can get access to my Bash shell, I can cross-compile linux kernel, applications, tools and libs on my desktop and run it on my Android device. I can then call my linux layer from my Android application:

Code:
Process exeCommands = Runtime.getRuntime().exec("/system/xbin/run_script.sh");
On that note, I still stand-by my points:

1) Android devices are as "Linux" as Maemo devices (Notice the keyword here is "devices")
2) Android applications are more restricted to access the Linux layer than Maemo (Android apps is comparable to Java apps on the desktop, and Maemo apps to glibc/X libs/gtk apps)
3) Android is compatible with Linux Kernel 2.6.33 (I'm running it now)
Some points for us to ponder:
  • Does the normal user care if Android is Linux or not?
  • As a mobile developer, do I choose a platform that has bigger user-base (and earn me more money), or do I choose a platform that I think has a bigger bragging rights as "pure" Linux platform?
  • Maemo has 5 years head-start of Android. Would Android exists if Nokia had "MeeGo-ed" Maemo back then?


Joe.


P.S. I'm not running Cynogen's mod
 

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