I know you're tired of hearing this, but once they get their foot in the door, and and aren't dealt with quickly by staff, trolls will ramp it up until they get that attention.

I'd like to note this is not exclusively the case. I'm not exactly an active contributor I'd be the first to agree (due to my personal circumstances, I do hope to slowly turn this around), but I do help others out with problems where I can, especially concerning Qt, and whatever other stuff I can do.

And if it hadn't been for that more mainstream appeal of the N900, I'd not be here, simply because prior to that, my attitude was always '*ANOTHER* device? No. I want *ONE* that does more'.

And the n900 did that for me, and I'm fairly sure, quite a few others too.

Churn, like it or not, is always going to happen to greater or lesser degrees. What you are saying is of course correct: that with a higher volume of lesser engaged users, churn is going to be greater.

The challenge IMO is what can be done to engage that volume and help produce 'ideal citizens' out of it if you will.

I don't have the whole part of the answer there, but I think that outreach activities like the Maemo Greeters program was certainly a step in the right direction and I think more activities like that are a great idea. Users communities per country with, say, 6 month meetups aren't even that unfeasible with the volume that devices must be selling in now - imagine what that is going to be doing to the more gadget-enthusiast amongst them...

Yeah. The forums could probably use a harsher attitude to things like this. But has this ever been brought up and properly discussed?

Good questions and I'll try to answer them as a prospective candidate. Thank you Texrat for your invitation in this thread.

Question 1:

First off I don't believe this forum ever was a developers forum. As GeneralAntilles said it has, is, and perhaps always will be an enthusiasts forum. I also agree with qole in his assertion that nothing has changed with the influx of N900 users.

Using your example of Eternal September referring to the the influx of freshmen, I believe if you examine the join dates of some of the "old-timers" responsible for some of the negative comments, you may see that they were not "old timers" at all.
Most of these snarky responses that I have seen came from members who joined a few months or at most a year before the new member asking the question.

Continuing with your example, sort of like a freshman room mate who got in first and picked the good bed and moved the dresser before you got there. Someone I will call "The eternal sophomore".

Question 2 :

This forum started out device oriented and not OS oriented. It was a privately owned, publicly viewed forum and as such had a benevolent dictator in Reggie, the owner. Then it was acquired by maemo.org and in a noble experiment, every member of maemo.org seemed to have a voice in its direction. This may have contributed to some of the eternal sophomore's empowerment. Unfortunately these sophomores are also the ones who most likely are, as GeneralAntilles put it, "not interested in sticking out for the long-term and they're not interested in contribution."

With MeeGo quickly approaching and the need for support for legacy Maemo devices, I believe that the forums should return to a device specific group of forums. Each device, legacy and new, should have its own forum with no more than 4 or 5 sub-forums for device specific subjects.

Each forum could establish its own style, moderation, and own specific posting guidelines as long as these do not contradict any general posting guidelines. The style and moderation of these forums will then come more naturally based on posting volume.

I also believe that the administration of the forums should return to an identified, perhaps council appointed, benevolent dictator.
This way the elected council would be accountable for the forums administration but not responsible for the day to day operation.

How can this help?

For one, it would put posts in better context. However the specific you used in your opening was "after sale support forum":

Enthusiasts will always come here after acquiring a new device. The specific forum for this device could, and should provide that new member with answers other than RTFM.
However, it is also my belief that this community should not be used by any manufacturer as a cheaper alternative to providing full customer support for the devices it intends to sell.
IMHO, this is something that needs to be looked at very carefully going forward. However, at this time a community council's input into matters such as this has not yet been clearly defined for me. But then again I'm slow like that.

BTW, one of the reasons I love this forum is that eventually all your questions will be answered.

Many, many times.

You're no pure end-user. Definitions are always so nebulous in discussions like these, but probably the most critical part.

Sure, but the proportions were inarguably different. A hobbyist device tends to attract a different crowd than a mainstream device. Talk has changed, whether you want to admit it or not.

Inarguably? hahahahaha! Is that your way of saying, "Stop arguing! I'm right!"

You're both right. Shut up.

I am going through this at the moment. First impression is that is pretty much what I am, as a end user, looking for. Congratulation !

Slide 5 : Is there really no other way to make a donation than with site like PayPal. Perhaps it should be integrated with your ovi account ? I just see this coming : "I wanted to make a donation but I was brought to PayPal. Is this a scam ? PayPal is not mainstream. If an end user got a Nokia phone and s/he is brought to Ovi.com for donation or better yet if it is integrated in the OS and told that, say, 2$ will be deduced from his/her Ovi account then I am sure donations would increase.

Slide 16 : Just a small comment. I would trigger the survey after the application has been launch for the fifth time. When I close an application it is often because I have something else do to and don't want to go through a survey at that time.

This whole process must be quick. An example :

Hi you are launching this application for the fifth time would you to give a feedback ?

YES --- NO --- Take survey later

If user says YES then :

Rate this application : 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5
Donate to developer(s) : 1$ - 2$ - 5$
Go to application web page (where you can ask for enhancement for example).

As I am not always online I would like to be able to complete the survey offline. I guess it is possible to store the survey localy and then when the phone is connected it can be sent.

Slide 21 : Is it possible to have something a la Windows which automaticaly send a report ? If it takes more than 1-2 minutes you are at risk the end user will get tired and close the bug reporting application.

To make it simple : Speed and ease of use are key elements for bug reporting, donation and rating.