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2010-03-23
, 15:58
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Posts: 1,309 |
Thanked: 1,187 times |
Joined on Nov 2008
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#172
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Candidates;
while some new members will arrive out of enthusiasm and a will to be part of the community, most members that sign up will do so because they have a problem, leading them to want to ask a question or give words to their complaints.
As a community council member, you'll be representing all the users, not just the productive elite. Infact, the ones that are not happy, don't understand guides, cannot find what they need on Google, these are the ones that need your ear more than the experts you know the best. At least, if this platform is going to be known as one that is good for as many users as possible.
How will you handle being surrounded by disgruntled average Joes? Can you handle repeated statements that the current product doesn't support MMS? Will you be able to judge someone fairly and hear their points if they start a thread with "ten reasons why the N920 sucks"? Getting angry/defensive at criticism is not good, misguided or not. And in most of it, there is a core of truth. Sometimes even something that isn't already reported in bugzilla or brainstorms. I'm not saying I expect you to be a friendly neighbourhood support team, but I would expect you to be polite in dealing with these people whenever you do choose to be active in such a thread.
Basically, when faced with an orangebox full of complaints, do you feel a need to defend the products, or is every disappointed owner an opportunity for improvement?
while some new members will arrive out of enthusiasm and a will to be part of the community, most members that sign up will do so because they have a problem, leading them to want to ask a question or give words to their complaints.
As a community council member, you'll be representing all the users, not just the productive elite. Infact, the ones that are not happy, don't understand guides, cannot find what they need on Google, these are the ones that need your ear more than the experts you know the best. At least, if this platform is going to be known as one that is good for as many users as possible.
How will you handle being surrounded by disgruntled average Joes? Can you handle repeated statements that the current product doesn't support MMS? Will you be able to judge someone fairly and hear their points if they start a thread with "ten reasons why the N920 sucks"? Getting angry/defensive at criticism is not good, misguided or not. And in most of it, there is a core of truth. Sometimes even something that isn't already reported in bugzilla or brainstorms. I'm not saying I expect you to be a friendly neighbourhood support team, but I would expect you to be polite in dealing with these people whenever you do choose to be active in such a thread.
Basically, when faced with an orangebox full of complaints, do you feel a need to defend the products, or is every disappointed owner an opportunity for improvement?
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2010-03-23
, 16:06
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Posts: 3,105 |
Thanked: 11,088 times |
Joined on Jul 2007
@ Mountain View (CA, USA)
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#173
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Originally Posted by SD69
Isn't the simpler solution to keep things as they are and you invest your time changing and improving whatever you think that matters?
It's the domain and website that are important to the community.
The most apparent solution is to create a simple non-profit organization, and then Nokia could
Why spending all this energy discussing about problems we don't actually have? Anyway, time to bring the focus back to the Council.
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2010-03-23
, 16:10
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Posts: 516 |
Thanked: 643 times |
Joined on Oct 2009
@ Denmark/Poland
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#174
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@volt, it is important to distinguish between new and possibly not informed users (maybe lacking some skills like Google search) from hostile entities simply trolling here.
The first group is part of the community and has right to be informed. This can be simply a direction to wiki page/right thread/a default answer explaining some issue. In my opinion simple 'use the search' is not enough for a reply (gives bad impression), however it should be added to the actual answer.
The second group should be, let's be frank, fought with. It is not about silencing anyone, it is about keeping some standards for the rest of the community. It is always on the per thread/user basis that it should be decided if it is a 'healthy' complaining or is it simple trolling bringing standards of the forum down.
The first group is part of the community and has right to be informed. This can be simply a direction to wiki page/right thread/a default answer explaining some issue. In my opinion simple 'use the search' is not enough for a reply (gives bad impression), however it should be added to the actual answer.
The second group should be, let's be frank, fought with. It is not about silencing anyone, it is about keeping some standards for the rest of the community. It is always on the per thread/user basis that it should be decided if it is a 'healthy' complaining or is it simple trolling bringing standards of the forum down.
__________________
Hi! I'm a Maemo Greeter!
Witaj na talk.maemo.org!
Useful links for newcomers:
Użyteczne linki:
Nowi użyktownicy mówią cześć | New members say hello , Tu zaczynają nowi użytkownicy | New users start here, Podforum społeczności | Community subforum, Wiki dla początkujących | Beginners' wiki page, Maemo5 101, Często zadawane pytania | Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ), Google
Jeżeli mogę w czymś pomóc, pytaj!
If I can help with anything else, just ask!
Bored? Follow me
Hi! I'm a Maemo Greeter!
Witaj na talk.maemo.org!
Useful links for newcomers:
Użyteczne linki:
Nowi użyktownicy mówią cześć | New members say hello , Tu zaczynają nowi użytkownicy | New users start here, Podforum społeczności | Community subforum, Wiki dla początkujących | Beginners' wiki page, Maemo5 101, Często zadawane pytania | Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ), Google
Jeżeli mogę w czymś pomóc, pytaj!
If I can help with anything else, just ask!
Bored? Follow me
| The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to hopbeat For This Useful Post: | ||
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2010-03-23
, 16:36
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Posts: 2,361 |
Thanked: 3,746 times |
Joined on Dec 2007
@ Berlin - Love this city!!
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#175
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I see the case similar as hopbeat.
In the past I was pointing new users to the right direction by simply copy'n'paste a link of the right post in the same thread for example.
Or I used the search and also gave them the link for the result, so that the words I was searching for are still highlighted.
Therefore they were able to see what I've made, and were able to do the same the next time.
Also I'm encouraging to use their new gained knowledge to help others.
Not only here in the forum, but many many are writing me via msn.
I've asked the majority of them, if I could give their msn address to other N900 users, to help them.
That works very good
Also I'm pointing them everytime to the source, where I got my knowledge from, so with the time, they can learn how to do the same.
In the past I was pointing new users to the right direction by simply copy'n'paste a link of the right post in the same thread for example.
Or I used the search and also gave them the link for the result, so that the words I was searching for are still highlighted.
Therefore they were able to see what I've made, and were able to do the same the next time.
Also I'm encouraging to use their new gained knowledge to help others.
Not only here in the forum, but many many are writing me via msn.
I've asked the majority of them, if I could give their msn address to other N900 users, to help them.
That works very good
Also I'm pointing them everytime to the source, where I got my knowledge from, so with the time, they can learn how to do the same.
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2010-03-23
, 17:51
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Posts: 11,700 |
Thanked: 10,045 times |
Joined on Jun 2006
@ North Texas, USA
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#176
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I'm just going to echo h0pbeat as well, except that I would choose different words than "fought with". That said, I agree with the premise if not the exact wording.
__________________
Nokia Developer Champion
Different <> Wrong | Listen - Judgment = Progress | People + Trust = Success
My personal site: http://texrat.net
Nokia Developer Champion
Different <> Wrong | Listen - Judgment = Progress | People + Trust = Success
My personal site: http://texrat.net
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2010-03-23
, 17:59
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Posts: 5,478 |
Thanked: 5,222 times |
Joined on Jan 2006
@ St. Petersburg, FL
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#177
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Originally Posted by volt
Every disappointed owner is not the council's job.
Basically, when faced with an orangebox full of complaints, do you feel a need to defend the products, or is every disappointed owner an opportunity for improvement?
The council provides community facilitation and community leadership (lead by example, not lead by administration). Much like maemo.org, its goal is not to offer user support, and smoothing the feathers of disgruntled users is not in its mandate.
User support and feedback needs are provided by Nokia Care. maemo.org should be making sure that's where these users end up, but actively working to field those sorts of complaints here is a disservice to the community, because it redirects efforts better spent towards productive ends, and a disservice to those users, because there's a reason Nokia Care is the channel to pursue and not maemo.org.
I'll be spending my time making sure the right people are getting connected to make the good things happen, not triaging for the complaint department.
__________________
Ryan Abel
Ryan Abel
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2010-03-23
, 18:00
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Posts: 1,513 |
Thanked: 2,248 times |
Joined on Mar 2006
@ US
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#178
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Originally Posted by qgil
Well, I was looking for a nod and guess I got a head shake instead
Isn't the simpler solution to keep things as they are and you invest your time changing and improving whatever you think that matters?
Why spending all this energy discussing about problems we don't actually have? Anyway, time to bring the focus back to the Council.
I am trying to improve what I think matters. Nokia folded maemo into meego. I don't want to invest time into a website betting against the possibility that Nokia will also fold maemo.org into meego.com. That's not an irrational thought for I and others to have. It falls under the broader theme of people in the Maemo community wanting a reliable roadmap to know they are investing in something that will still be around a few years from now.
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2010-03-23
, 18:09
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Posts: 11,700 |
Thanked: 10,045 times |
Joined on Jun 2006
@ North Texas, USA
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#179
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Originally Posted by SD69
SD69, if you want to move this to Ask the Council I would be happy to pick it up there.
Well, I was looking for a nod and guess I got a head shake instead
I am trying to improve what I think matters. Nokia folded maemo into meego. I don't want to invest time into a website betting against the possibility that Nokia will also fold maemo.org into meego.com. That's not an irrational thought for I and others to have. It falls under the broader theme of people in the Maemo community wanting a reliable roadmap to know they are investing in something that will still be around a few years from now.
__________________
Nokia Developer Champion
Different <> Wrong | Listen - Judgment = Progress | People + Trust = Success
My personal site: http://texrat.net
Nokia Developer Champion
Different <> Wrong | Listen - Judgment = Progress | People + Trust = Success
My personal site: http://texrat.net
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2010-03-23
, 18:11
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Posts: 968 |
Thanked: 974 times |
Joined on Nov 2008
@ Ohio
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#180
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Originally Posted by GeneralAntilles
Would you care to clarify? It sounds to me as though you are advocating direction many potential new members to Nokia Support? Are you suggesting that Texrats' Maemo Greeters program should instead of answering a question / addressing a complaint, with information and links, direct those people to Nokia Support?
User support and feedback needs are provided by Nokia Care. maemo.org should be making sure that's where these users end up, but actively working to field those sorts of complaints here is a disservice to the community, because it redirects efforts better spent towards productive ends, and a disservice to those users, because there's a reason Nokia Care is the channel to pursue and not maemo.org
Most of the other answers above yours advocate providing guidance and answers, not just shoving people back out the door.
Is it that you don't believe there are many end-users here or that you don't want end users here?
Please clarify as this sounds on the face to be a particularly dangerous and unfriendly attitude to have.
__________________
*Consumer*, not a developer! I apologize for any inconvenience.
My script to backup /home and /opt
Samsung Galaxy S Vibrant, Huawei S7, N900(retired), N800(retired)
*Consumer*, not a developer! I apologize for any inconvenience.
My script to backup /home and /opt
Samsung Galaxy S Vibrant, Huawei S7, N900(retired), N800(retired)
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All times are GMT. The time now is 05:10.
Expanding on the position that I originally expressed in my nomination/declaration:
If elected I will push for a strong, more focused community voice from within the forums.
I will also do my very best to use our forums as a better conduit for Nokia-generated information and will do so using the tools available to any member of the forums and under the same rules and guidelines presented by our independent, Forum Administration.
-YoDude
As I wrote earlier, I think the best style of leadership in these matters is leadership by example...
SLN member # 009
Last edited by YoDude; 2010-03-23 at 15:13. Reason: "more" for "some".. better word choice