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mooninite is offline mooninite
2010-04-07 , 19:43
Posts: 176 | Thanked: 262 times | Joined on Nov 2009 @ Texas, USA
#41
Originally Posted by Mixu View Post
My experience exactly (except that I was planning to start developing one year ago for my N810). Being new to Linux (I'm a C# coder too) I asked advice but didn't get good replies. Somehow I got a feeling that there are no beginner Maemo developers. You have to born as one. If you ask questions, then you are not the chosen one.
Asking developer questions on tmo won't get a lot of views. Most Maemo developers use the mailing lists (such as myself). Subscribe there and ask away. We won't bite.

https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/list...emo-developers
 

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rmerren is offline rmerren
2010-04-07 , 19:51
Posts: 282 | Thanked: 337 times | Joined on Dec 2009 @ Austin, TX, USA
#42
Originally Posted by junooni View Post
For cryin out loud its a basic feature in a smart phone these days,.
We N900 users are geeks who rarely leave home and would never ask directions. When we use maps, it is only for Geocaching. When we use GPS navigation, it is only to prove we know a better route than the computer.

The fact that you do not know these things makes me think you are secretly an iPhone user.

(Please be aware that the above response contains sarcasm.)
 

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junooni is offline junooni
2010-04-07 , 20:01
Posts: 78 | Thanked: 17 times | Joined on Jan 2010
#43
Originally Posted by rmerren View Post
We N900 users are geeks who rarely leave home and would never ask directions. When we use maps, it is only for Geocaching. When we use GPS navigation, it is only to prove we know a better route than the computer.

The fact that you do not know these things makes me think you are secretly an iPhone user.

(Please be aware that the above response contains sarcasm.)
yep that was funny..
 
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Ken-Young is offline Ken-Young
2010-04-07 , 20:56
Posts: 387 | Thanked: 1,700 times | Joined on Feb 2010 @ Cambridge, MA, USA
#44
Originally Posted by mooninite View Post
Asking developer questions on tmo won't get a lot of views. Most Maemo developers use the mailing lists (such as myself). Subscribe there and ask away. We won't bite.

https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/list...emo-developers
I've also had very good luck getting development-related questions answered on the IRC maemo-devel channel. Not a lot of guys hang out there, but the ones who do are knowledgeable and very helpful.
 
MoJo is offline MoJo
2010-04-08 , 01:43
Posts: 108 | Thanked: 120 times | Joined on Dec 2009
#45
As good a phone as the N900 has been, I say Nokia has been its biggest detriment. Lackluster service behind the phone, development community that isn't being energized (how about payment services, and more structure in the developmental frameworks), and still a unfinished phone when it comes to software. You guys forget, it took them until the first update to get Ovi store running with the N900 and now the payment service is faulty and disabled. Lost momentum, is all it equates to. They don't have a clear strategy for this phone from day one.

Developers gravitate here, but with all this confusion and mixed signals coming from Nokia ... they don't stay long enough. A real revolving door.

It almost feels like this was a test deliberately set to fail. This thread is just highlighting that Nokia isn't doing enough to ensure proper development. Look at the App Manager as an example ... it doesn't even a have the mechanisms to easily find an app (ratings, comments, screenshots, better organized layout, in line search (without context bar), etc), Ovi Store has had the same apps from day one. Someone is sleeping at their station and the community is doing more than is required ... Nokia needs to put up or shut-up.
 

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junooni is offline junooni
2010-04-08 , 01:56
Posts: 78 | Thanked: 17 times | Joined on Jan 2010
#46
Originally Posted by MoJo View Post
As good a phone as the N900 has been, I say Nokia has been its biggest detriment. Lackluster service behind the phone, development community that isn't being energized (how about payment services, and more structure in the developmental frameworks), and still a unfinished phone when it comes to software. You guys forget, it took them until the first update to get Ovi store running with the N900 and now the payment service is faulty and disabled. Lost momentum, is all it equates to. They don't have a clear strategy for this phone from day one.

Developers gravitate here, but with all this confusion and mixed signals coming from Nokia ... they don't stay long enough. A real revolving door.

It almost feels like this was a test deliberately set to fail. This thread is just highlighting that Nokia isn't doing enough to ensure proper development. Look at the App Manager as an example ... it doesn't even a have the mechanisms to easily find an app (ratings, comments, screenshots, better organized layout, in line search (without context bar), etc), Ovi Store has had the same apps from day one. Someone is sleeping at their station and the community is doing more than is required ... Nokia needs to put up or shut-up.

Nailed it!!!
 
pinsh is offline pinsh
2010-04-08 , 04:24
Posts: 74 | Thanked: 142 times | Joined on Oct 2009 @ Chicago, US
#47
There seem to be many professional C# developers in this thread who seem be having a hard time starting Qt development.

I'm just curious.. didn't you guys learn C++ in college?
 
roger_27 is offline roger_27
2010-04-08 , 04:42
Posts: 204 | Thanked: 561 times | Joined on Jan 2010
#48
PINSH -

I'm guessing you mean that question in curiosity, and not to sound like a smart *** (the internet sure can misconstrue these things) but for me the problem is not C++ vs C#, but rather which direction to go get to the damned IDE. One tutorial I was looking at showed you just type all this stuff at a command prompt?

what would work (which I am considering writing once I figured it out) is this:

1. a breif explanation as to how maemo development works. what talks to what, to talk to what.

2. a breif explanation on the different methods you can do to begin developement, and possibly their pros and cons (from what I have been reading there are 2 or 3 ways to make apps for these things)

3. a list of the IDEs that are available, how they would be used, and pros / cons


also needed is some explaining on why sometimes you need to include the things you include, and how optifying works, how the repositories work (as far as developing and registering your app into one), how the bug tracker works, how the project pages work.

I am a .NET developer by profession. I write billing systems for entire cities. quite a few in California. It's quite frustrating to know that I can write integration systems into Quickbooks, Billing systems for entire cities, commercial software released to customers, but I couldn't program my way out of a paper bag when it came to this Maemo beast.

all I've got is a virtual machine that I'm not even sure is installed right. lol.

like I said, I'm gonna pick this up again, and I PM'd a few people who said they think they can help. For those of you who don't understand, here's my attempt at an analogy...

imagine you are a construction worker. You have built sky rises like no one has ever seen. You have helped built some of the highest church chapels, some of the most amazing theaters, and some of the wierdest office building.

one day, you find out that the motor home business is booming. You have built your share of small homes, you did a little reading on how one would go about accomplishing this, but you have no real experience in it. guess what? there is a completely different set of building codes you need to take into account for with this new style. You can't place an all glass roof on something like this, or marble flooring, it's too heavy. What kind of materials should you even think of? Basically, you need to learn the rules, before you can start.
 
wmarone is offline wmarone
2010-04-08 , 05:09
Posts: 1,746 | Thanked: 2,100 times | Joined on Sep 2009
#49
Originally Posted by MoJo View Post
As good a phone as the N900 has been, I say Nokia has been its biggest detriment. Lackluster service behind the phone, development community that isn't being energized (how about payment services, and more structure in the developmental frameworks)
I think the primary mistake here is assuming that Nokia, from the outset, was intending to push into the realm of the iPhone with the N900. They pulled directly from their internet tablet line, and -still- hold the N97 as their flagship device, which does have reliable access to the Ovi store along with all of their other phones.

Also, a huge part of the developmental frameworks as they exist in Maemo 5 are open source, so Nokia can only apply so much pressure here. In a sense this is why they're moving to Qt, so that they can give you the static, unchanging API you need for closed applications.

and still a unfinished phone when it comes to software. You guys forget, it took them until the first update to get Ovi store running with the N900 and now the payment service is faulty and disabled. Lost momentum, is all it equates to. They don't have a clear strategy for this phone from day one.
I'd say that their strategy was to step Maemo from WiFi only to WiFi + GSM data network. Then it was strangely successful and attracted people who didn't look at where it came from, only at what others were doing, thinking Nokia was intent on doing the same.

It almost feels like this was a test deliberately set to fail. This thread is just highlighting that Nokia isn't doing enough to ensure proper development.
What do you consider "proper development?"

Look at the App Manager as an example ... it doesn't even a have the mechanisms to easily find an app (ratings, comments, screenshots, better organized layout, in line search (without context bar), etc)
To be totally fair, the Application Manager is effecively just a front end for apt and dpkg. It's not designed to do any of that.

I think there's a large number of people who came thinking that Maemo was just like Android, built from the ground up to be a Phone OS with an App Store ready to go just like them, then don't bother to look at where it came from and the community that was already here.
Last edited by wmarone; 2010-04-08 at 05:24.
 
rmerren is offline rmerren
2010-04-08 , 05:15
Posts: 282 | Thanked: 337 times | Joined on Dec 2009 @ Austin, TX, USA
#50
Originally Posted by roger_27 View Post
one day, you find out that the motor home business is booming. You have built your share of small homes, you did a little reading on how one would go about accomplishing this, but you have no real experience in it. guess what? there is a completely different set of building codes you need to take into account for with this new style. You can't place an all glass roof on something like this, or marble flooring, it's too heavy. What kind of materials should you even think of? Basically, you need to learn the rules, before you can start.
It looks overwhelming at first because you have so many choices of languages, frameworks, IDEs, etc., and then there is the whole mysterious world of packaging to deb, uploading to the repos, etc. On some other platforms, you really only have one choice.

Just to extend your analogy: Don't build a high-rise. Just get some parts and slap something together to see if you like it. I suggest starting with:
  • QT & C++ (or QT and Python, which allows you to skip the build bullet)
  • Use QTCreator (or any text editor, really) for an IDE (or use something like IDLE if you are using python)
  • Create and test on your computer until you have a working program...then (if you are using C++) use MADDE to build it to an executable for the device.
  • Deploy the executable to your handset with SCP
  • Run the executable from command line on the handset, or (even easier) SSH into the handset and run it, and it will start on the device
The point is, don't try and learn programming for the device with a major project. Just make a light project (a calculator or clock or reminder widget or whatever) and get the basics working.

If it makes you feel better, I was primarily a C# programmer for a while, have done mostly Java (with some python and more recently PHP) for the last 4 years, and haven't even played with C++ in over a decade. I was able to get a running application in a few hours fiddling one evening, though I haven't played with packaging to deb or any serious testing yet. I probably would have been up and running faster if I used python instead of C++.

Just dive in and build something, and if you find a better IDE or compiler or language you can always switch to it (or use it on your next project).
 
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