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fatalsaint is offline fatalsaint
2010-05-04 , 02:17
Posts: 3,428 | Thanked: 2,856 times | Joined on Jul 2008
#31
Originally Posted by gerbick View Post
No worries mate. I truly appreciate your answer and honestly, I had not thought of it in the terms you use it, so I learned a new perspective.

But it seems like it's "Jump on Gerbick" today... oh well. I'll just put off that N900 purchase for one more week now
Oh, one last thing:

I used the G1. Keyboard was decent; especially liked the separate numbers and the "|" (yes, I use that character a lot) right as a "functioned" key.

My wife has the CLIQ. Keyboard is OK. I could never type very much on it; and I'm slow as all hell trying to fumble with it. I suppose it could grow on me but.. meh.

I've seen and held the Droid. Keyboard friggin sucks. My fingers are a little too big and it's just plain flat. Ugh.

Then the N900 - it took me less than a night to get used to it (it was awkward at first) but now I've actually taken to writing full emails and doing lots of CLI work with it just like on my Desktop. On the G1 I would do it if I had to; but never really liked working with the keyboard much. On this; it's perfect.

So yeah.. all my same software - AND the best keyboard I've dealt with yet.

I do have some complaints with the N900; but I'm actually reasonable... every phone has problems. My G1 had problems, my wife's CLIQ has problems, my buddy has a Nexus One and it has problems... so I don't worry too much about whining about my problems. Most of it is also due to multi-tasking; which, no other phone can do quite like this anyway: so not really fair to compare it to something else.
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gerbick
2010-05-04 , 02:21
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#32
Naw. My time with PR1.1.1 on a N900 during my 10 days while in Pittsburgh (thanks to my friend, he loaned it to me) I'll wait for PR1.2.

Thanks for your concern. I've used the N900 for a total amount of a month already. I'm waiting on other reasons to purchase one. I'm sure it'll happen... and my experience with Maemo has honestly never been frustrating.

I've had enough time with the N900 to form my opinion. Now, I'm waiting on the final compelling reason, and PR1.2 has it, video calling for Skype and GTalk.
Last edited by gerbick; 2010-05-04 at 02:23.
 
fatalsaint is offline fatalsaint
2010-05-04 , 02:21
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#33
Originally Posted by vmajor View Post
Buy the N900, discover it first hand. Chances are that after a few weeks of frustration and struggle you will find out what is so good about it, I did. Or you will not... and there will be yet another post about N900 being junk etc., but at least then it will be an opinion based on your own experience with it.
Ok, I am not always on Gerbick's side. In fact him and I have been at odds over the N900 from day 1 as he's a bit more verbose about his complaints.

But; what you have to understand is that - and I'll use myself as an example - I've been around since the N810. I used OS2008 and Diablo.

When the N900 came out I read every post on these forums for weeks. I can tell you; that as an experienced user of Maemo (even though the N900 was a full re-write; many of the functionality is similar) - just reading people's complaints and other peoples solutions can give an experienced administrator (which Gerbick is) a very clear picture of what the N900 is and isn't.

The N900 held no real surprises for me when I bought it as I had already developed an app for it before I had ever even felt one in my hands. So, just because Gerbick doesn't have the phone - dismissing his concerns outright isn't the best approach either.

Mostly, I've just seem him repeat problems that other people have also complained about and he seems to be keeping track .
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leetut is offline leetut
2010-05-04 , 02:22
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#34
shame about the put down comments against other members, yet again...
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vmajor is offline vmajor
2010-05-04 , 02:51
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#35
Originally Posted by fatalsaint View Post
So, just because Gerbick doesn't have the phone - dismissing his concerns outright isn't the best approach either.

Mostly, I've just seem him repeat problems that other people have also complained about and he seems to be keeping track .
It is not dismissing, but there is a definite difference between experiencing something that you personally invested in (money, not just time) and using something that was gifted. Deciding to part with your money is a significant signal of your "faith" in the product, so any experience with the purchased device will be through a different point of view.

The actual point that I tried to make is that EVERYONE has a valid point of view since this forum allows sharing of individual opinions.

Making it so that negative views are held as absolute, indisputable truth is both frustrating and off putting to new happy users like myself.

What makes this even worse is when sharing of OPINIONS descends into "my opinion is more important than yours and furthermore you are an intellectual midget and a stump [insert your own actual favourite insult here]" type of arguments.

It is indeed possible and acceptable to like, or dislike the N900. We all have our own end user experience targets. I just feel that if you do not like the N900 please be aware that it is YOUR OWN experience and if you really feel like you must share it, pick an appropriate title and stay away from insinuating that anyone who likes the N900 is deluding themselves.

V.
 

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woody14619 is offline woody14619
2010-05-04 , 02:57
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#36
Thanks for starting this thread! I was just thinking of doing it, but titling it "I LOVE SENDING MMS ON MY N900!" to make a point.

I first heard about this phone through another device I own named the Neo FreeRunner.

The Neo was supposed to be what the N900 has become, a mainly opensource device that one could use as a phone and/or as a MID. It looked promising, and was sold with grand statements on what it was able to do that later turned out to be false. It had major hardware bugs, they changed the OS weeks before launch in major ways, and it never worked reliably as anything. It had recamping issues, volume issues, feedback issues, self-generated buzz... The GPS wouldn't work if you had a uSD card installed, wifi could connect once, but then the device had to be rebooted to reset the chip. Really, it was that bad. The company not only didn't update the device, but went out of business.

When I saw the N900, I was wary, having just been bitten, but I knew the Nokia name, and did major research before ordering. I downloaded the build tools, played with them a bit, and even came here, to find a very supporting community (well, minus some people upset about all the new development going into the N900...) Had I come today, I'm not sure I'd have jumped for it, given the high number of negative nancies running amuck.

I got my N900 the day before Thanksgiving, and have really enjoyed every second of it since. I was a little disappointed by a few items, like the map software and the lack of major IM client support, but I knew that was fixable. I figured, it's Linux, running X. How hard can it be to cross port pidgen? I hit the garage site, and the project was already there. I helped by testing it. The same was true of MMS, which I didn't even discover until a friend asked about one he sent (I don't get them often). I went to see what was happening, and already there was a prototype ready to test. Even mapping has come along with Maemo Mapper, and several other tools.

And, it works like a phone too! The wifi just works, no hassle, just click and go. The bluetooth worked great, minus some minor issues around keyboards and mice, which was easily fixed once someone figured out how to register them as input devices with the window manager via gconf and xset. Every time I had a problem, I'd find people here with a similar issue, and either they had a solution already, or were working on a fix. And even when the fix was elusive, or still kind of rough, there was this feeling of "Isn't it great we have the option of trying to fix this ourselves, vs waiting and hoping Nokia/Maemo gets to it."

Overall, I've been loving this device (phone, MID, whatever you want to call it). It's not for everyone, granted. But for those with an inclination to tinker, that want a stable base that does what it's advertised to do, this is the one. I for one am looking forward to a real 1.2 being put out so I have new things to play with, and can finally decide which of 3 or 4 apps I've been debating starting gets to go next. (Eg, if maps aren't improved, I may work on that. If it is, maybe an e-mail client... etc)
 

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fatalsaint is offline fatalsaint
2010-05-04 , 03:05
Posts: 3,428 | Thanked: 2,856 times | Joined on Jul 2008
#37
Originally Posted by vmajor View Post
It is not dismissing, but there is a definite difference between experiencing something that you personally invested in (money, not just time) and using something that was gifted. Deciding to part with your money is a significant signal of your "faith" in the product, so any experience with the purchased device will be through a different point of view.

The actual point that I tried to make is that EVERYONE has a valid point of view since this forum allows sharing of individual opinions.

Making it so that negative views are held as absolute, indisputable truth is both frustrating and off putting to new happy users like myself.

What makes this even worse is when sharing of OPINIONS descends into "my opinion is more important than yours and furthermore you are an intellectual midget and a stump [insert your own actual favourite insult here]" type of arguments.

It is indeed possible and acceptable to like, or dislike the N900. We all have our own end user experience targets. I just feel that if you do not like the N900 please be aware that it is YOUR OWN experience and if you really feel like you must share it, pick an appropriate title and stay away from insinuating that anyone who likes the N900 is deluding themselves.

V.
I agree (mostly) with what your saying here; and it is something I'm seeing more and more in these forums - I just didn't really feel your specific target (Gerbick) was fitting this rather generic mold here (at least; up until the mini-pissing contest, but at that point both sides ceased to have the morale high ground).

One thing I will note that: Everyone has a point of view - yes. But they are not always valid views . Quite frequently people are simply mis-informed.

However, on the first part about parting your $$ etc.. I disagree with that. In fact, I think researching what you're planning on buying and looking into it is a far better method than buying and then complaining after-the-fact. I am a strong believer in educating yourself before dropping $$ (especially, if you are like me and pay $500 for a phone).

Now, if something was almost perfect for me; but not quite there - then following that project and helping to make it better (the emphasis here is on helping make it better; I'd rather not argue whether we think or don't think any specific individual is or isn't doing that) before you buy it certainly is not a bad idea.

Me personally; the N900 was enough what I wanted that warranted me dropping the money (however: only after I finally read confirmation that at *least* a devel version of MeeGo will be released for it. I don't mind using devel releases or testing software, but I wouldn't buy a phone with no future at all.) Other people are being more conservative - and that is perfectly fine as well.
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Last edited by fatalsaint; 2010-05-04 at 03:09.
 
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devu is offline devu
2010-05-04 , 03:20
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#38
Originally Posted by leetut View Post
shame about the put down comments against other members, yet again...
I agree with you.

Guys please, I am really sorry for my poor English and the way I am trying to express myself here. But try to understand new members point of view.

I bought my device 2 months ago. Joined to this community just 1 month ago after 1 month of playing with N900 around, hungry information, advice anything that could help me.

Read my first posts as well. I came here for another one reason. Develop flash WebOS as my contribution to the community since I am not linux guy in terms of programming skills. I am trying help with what I can really do.

I even quieted my perm job because of that. decided to back to freelancing to win more time to run this project. I had to suspend Flaemo for a while because at least I need to survive following month somehow.

But what I see as "fresh member" amazed me. Experience users might lost this perspective being long time here and it's like normal stuff for you but for me it's just... (here is my lack of English to express my feelings)

Every second thread is about complaining how bad n900 is. Every 20 that selling his device. Experienced users like gerbick for example heating this atmosphere up. What's the hell is going on here? Do you have idea how your contribution to the community looks like here?

Is nothing constructive about that, nothing supportive at all and I fairly sure there is number of people that abandon this ship because of above!

These days people loosing perception and internet nature is like one will write the rumor another support it by comment and experience and third gonna believe it! You had so good example yesterday how many guys pick up the PR 1.2 leaked. It also showing me how people are news hungry here!

@gerbick mate, I pointed out I feel torsion between us from very beginning and if you didn't get it, once again, let's fix this bug I meant I am already giving you hand and you can shake it. But you just keep repeating your mantra instead. I don't want prove nobody here how smart I am or how much I know. Because once again am noob here. But also I am about your age and we are pretty much the same generation that makes me believe there is more chance to understand each other.

I can accept and respect any your opinion it's your saint law. But remember also every one else here. No one is exception.

I am not loosing my faith here and is no my intention to p**s somebody off or heat temperature up either. I need to find positive aspects of being here really. I don't understand why some members here act so emotionally. Get out, take a walk just do something, I don't know, that really helps you to calm down a bit. I don't believe that anybody intention was to put down comments against any one else. So why there is so many things like that here?

Getting back to the subject.

Yes, device it's not perfect needs to be polished up. But for me when I bought 3 months before I get N900 first Nokia device N97 that was big jump forward. And I even didn't know there is such thing like Internet Tablet before I learned about the Nokia Families. Once again fresh look on everything related around this area. I red a lot about N900 and even as noob I knew a lot about what I can expect. I don't know maybe level of expectation for owners of previous models rising higher, but my 1st impression was much better as expectations with all of weaknesses I knew. And still i see much more possibilities rather than lack of functionality.
Last edited by devu; 2010-05-04 at 03:35.
 

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HellFlyer is offline HellFlyer
2010-05-04 , 03:31
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#39
Originally Posted by devu View Post
I agree with you.

Guys please, I am really sorry for my poor English and the way I am trying to express myself here. But try to understand new members point of view.

I bought my device 2 months ago. Joined to this community just 1 month ago after 1 month of playing with N900 around, hungry information, advice anything that could help me.

Read my first posts as well. I came here for another one reason. Develop flash WebOS as my contribution to the community since I am not linux guy in terms of programming skills. I am trying help with what I can really do.

I even quieted my perm job because of that. decided to back to freelancing to win more time to run this project. I had to suspend Flaemo for a while because at least I need to survive following month somehow.

But what I see as "fresh member" amazed me. Experience users might lost this perspective being long time here and it's like normal stuff for you but for me it's just... (here is my lack of English to express my feelings)

Every second thread is about complaining how bad n900 is. Every 20 that selling his device. Experienced users like gerbick for example heating this atmosphere up. What's the hell is going on here? Do you have idea how your contribution to the community looks like here?

Is nothing constructive about that, nothing supportive at all and I fairly sure there is number of people that abandon this ship because of above!

These days people loosing perception and internet nature is like one will write the rumor another support it by comment and experience and third gonna believe it! You had so good example yesterday how many guys pick up the PR 1.2 leaked. It also showing me how people are news hungry here!

@gerbick mate, I pointed out I feel torsion between us from very beginning and if you didn't get it once again. Let's fix this bug I meant I am already giving you hand and you can shake it. But you just keep repeating your mantra. I don't want prove nobody here how smart I am or know. Because once again am noob here. But also I am about your age and we are pretty much the same generation that makes me believe there is more chance to understand each other.

I am not loosing my faith here and is no my intention to p**s somebody off or heat temperature up either. I need to find positive aspects of being ere really. I don't understand why some members here act so emotionally. Get out, talk a walk just do something, I don't know, that really helps you to calm down a bit. I don't believe that anybody intention was to put down comments against any one. So why there is so many things like that here?

Getting back to the subject.

Yes, device it's not perfect needs to be polished up. But for me when I bought 3 months before I get N900 first Nokia device N97 that was big jump forward. And I even didn't know there is such thing like Internet Tablet before I learned about the Nokia Families. Once again fresh look on everything related around this area. I red a lot about N900 and even as noob I knew a lot about what I can expect. I don't know maybe level of expectation for owners of previous models rising higher, but my 1st impression was much better as expectations with all of weaknesses I knew. And still i see much more possibilities rather than lack of functionality.
Big respect to you man Seriously I wish there are more people like you in this community
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woody14619 is offline woody14619
2010-05-04 , 03:39
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#40
Originally Posted by fatalsaint View Post
Oh, one last thing:

I've seen and held the Droid. Keyboard friggin sucks. My fingers are a little too big and it's just plain flat. Ugh.
Very close to my experiences. It's amazing what the slight rounding of the keytops can do as far as sensitivity to typing.

There is one thing I do miss: Being able to type things out one-handed. One of the app ideas I've had is writing an alternate on-screen keyboard that resembled the old 3x5 pad of pre-keyboard phones. Maybe even implementing T9 on it. It seemed inconvenient before to have to enter everything that way, but once you got used to it you kind of miss the ability to text with one hand.

Happily, there's an API for that, and worst case I can develop that and make it available to others. That's a key reason I wanted this device, that and the fact that there was a stable underlying platform to start from.

As for the continued negativity from gerbick.... What can I say? Well, anything I want apparently, since he's ignoring me now.

Some people are only happy by making others unhappy. Hold on to a grudge long enough and it will eventually consume you. What good is there in challenging people in a forum for a device on why they think their device is better than other 100% close sourced platforms? Kinda makes me sad... But I won't let other peoples warped ways of living dampen or spoil my mood.

Frankly, I'm happy with what I have right now. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to get PR1.2, but that's icing on the cake. If a meteor were to hit Nokia/Maemo headquarters tomorrow, and 1.2 was never released, I'd still be content. I have snapshots of the current OS and the build platform, none of which has DRM or anything time-stamped to expire like most of the other platform SDKs. If no further updates were available, no code were later opened up, we already have what we need to continue, to make our own updates, and to expand the phone as a community. And that base not only works, but works well for all the vital parts needed by most users. The only limiter now is hardware, since eventually even the GSM spec will change, or go away. But to have that freedom now... that's what it's all about.

It may not be 100% open source, but then nothing really is. (Do you have the code for the firmware that boots your computer's processor at start up? Didn't think so...) What isn't open source is either replaceable, or has such a well documented API that it doesn't need replacing. This is the most open working system available today. And I'm happy to finally have it after years of wanting something just like it.
 

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