It would be quite surprising to me if meego.com satisfactorily supported the long tail for legacy and EOL Maemo devices. Even maemo.org struggles now to do that. Presumably, many of the vendors of MeeGo devices will have their own UI customization. Presumably, the customizations will be closed while MeeGo and its APIs are open. It seems unlikely that MeeGo.com will support all of the vendors' UI customizations.

The point of discussion here is whether it is worth keeping investing in new maemo.org development vs moving the investment towards a more Maemo friendly meego.com. I'm claiming that any current Maemo user is overall happy with the current maemo.org, and he actually will benefit more from a friendly meego.com for the day he wants to make the step.

This is actually not a discussion about software development and platform hacking, since the maemo.org development effort doesn't work in that direction.

Said that, the "long tail" of Maemo devices consists of the N900 and 3 Internet Tablets released between 2005 and 2007 and from all the potential customized UIs the one that matters in this context is the one from Nokia. Whoever is interested seeing a Nokia MeeGo UI running on the N8*0 is definitely interested in meego.com.

No, the point of discussion is whether Nokia will honor its commitment to continue to pay maemo.org staff to work on maemo.org tasks. It seems like you are trying to argue your way out of that commitment.

We are committed to keep funding Maemo community members to work on whatever priorities are decided by the Maemo community. I'm explicitly not constraining this to maemo.org and I'm explaining why meego.com involvement is good for the Maemo community. But the call is yours.

The meeting today has been cancelled. I'm going to be sending an email to key participants shortly so we can arrange a mutually convenient time.

Once settled on, the meeting will be well advertised (here and the council blog - which is syndicated to the Community forum) and be open to all.

The mutually convenient time is in. The meeting will be held on Monday, 17th May 2010 at 13:00 UTC.

The full invite is on maemo-community.

Thanks Andrew!

For the next time, let's try to announce it with a full weekday (or two) - late Friday night for Monday afternoon is a little short.

Dave.

Well, indeed[1]. However, the participation in this whole process has been quite lax, and this is perhaps indicative of the general malaise affecting the community.

For every cool hack; there are a billion unconstructive, ranting threads about PR1.2; and input on community processes and direction is limited to the same names over and over[2].


[1] Fewer working hours, but it's been approaching for more than 24 hours unlike the last proposed time ;-p
[2] I'll turn off my computer now and go and do something more enjoyable.

Hi all,

We had the community meeting (not a sprint meeting as such, more a
brainstorm about where we're at, how we're working, how we can set goals
and work better), and I think it was useful. Here are the minutes. The
main conclusion is that we are going to run a 7 day brainstorm to help
set some priorities for the community and specifically for the council &
staff for the next 6 months.

These are minutes, and of course a lot of things were said that are not
in here. X-Fade has put the full IRC log online at:
http://maemo.org/maemo-meeting/maemo...010-05-17.html

Cheers,
Dave.

Maemo Team Meeting 17/5/10 minutes

Chair: Andrew Flegg
Secretary: Dave Neary

Agenda:

1. Review of progress over the past year of maemo.org team (open discussion)
2. Setting priorities for next 3 months for the community - not
micro-tasks, but larger goals
3. Allocation of ownership & co-ordination responsibilities within these
tasks to members of the maemo.org team
4. A full & frank discussion of the impact of the MeeGo project on the
short-term goals of Maemo
5. AOB

Present:

Maemo Community Council: Jaffa, GAN900, javispedro, Texrat (GAN only
sort of here)
maemo.org staff: Andre, Dave, Niels, Karsten, Carsten, Henri, Ferenc,
Alexey (from Nemein)
Nokia: Daniel Wilms
Maemo community: Many others - total attendance ~45.

Nick legend:
Jaffa: Andrew Flegg
GAN900: Ryan Abel
javispedro: Javi Pedro
Texrat: Randall Arnold
X-Fade: Niels Breet
dneary: Dave Neary
Stskeeps: Carsten Munk
bergie: Henri Bergius
JimiDini: Alexey

1. Review of progress (general discussion)

• Small progress constantly being made, but no real concerted effort to
target big goals over the past year
• Sprint meetings became checklist meetings where broader discussion was
ruled off-topic (and often status updates were quite vague - no
transparency or accountability for late/deferred tasks)
• Not much demand or agenda coming from Maemo community - maemo.org
staff feel like they have to set their own agendas
• Proposal that 6 month arcs where we relaunch and reprioritise bigger
goals, perhaps synced with council terms, would work well
• maemo.org backlog is perceived as being owned by maemo.org staff &
Nokia - people aren't sure if they're welcome to add tasks there
• ACTION: Maemo Community Council to provide constructive feedback to
maemo.org staff after the meeting: Jaffa

2. Six-month priorities for project:
• X-Fade: maemo.org in 6 months should be in a stable state where we can
live with it being like that forever, and it can support Maemo users who
don't want to move to MeeGo
• Jaffa: Things done in next 6 months should have a long-term benefit to
maemo.org or be transferrable to MeeGo
• bergie: SSO, transitioning Downloads to come from Packages
• dneary: How does/should MeeGo affect the Maemo agenda? GAN900: That's
unclear for now
• Stskeeps: Think of MeeGo as a child of Maemo & Moblin - what should we
do as responsible parents?
• ACTION: Run a 1 week brainstorm similar to 100Days for the next 6
months agenda: dneary
• Likely priorities for next 6 months: SS0, Products interface
• Suggestion from Jaffa: "once tasks are assigned; after the brainstorm
should we say: 1) Monthly blog posts (syndicated to planet) or emails
(which can be consolidated by the council into one blog post) for each
task; and a biweekly (i.e. every 2 weeks) catch-up meeting"
3. maemo.org team workflow
• There is a feeling that reporting is still not good
• BAU tasks take so much time that there is often not time to add new
tasks (X-Fade)
• Bergie: We just had a 2 day hackfest with X-Fade on the Packages
interface. Jaffa: How can you complain about lack of community input
when such things happen in the background?
• Monthly reports are not sufficient - reports tend to be too fuzzy to
allow for delegation - tasks get bundled up to "Progress slow" or "Not
finished yet" (dneary)
• "I spend over 2 hours a day reading forums, email, blogs, tweets,
keeping up with all the information cuts into work time" (X-Fade)
• For accountability, regular questions on mailing lists should work -
dneary. "Except requests for information go unanswered" (Jaffa)
• Discussion on the effectiveness of sprint page + qaiku - dneary: No
idea how many people visit qaiku or the sprint page daily. Mailing lists
& forums better indicator of activity. X-Fade: I report on Qaiku -
people can link to that from wherever they want. dneary: When there are
4 places where people can report progress, it's easy to miss reporting.
Jaffa: We use jira at work, and when I'm travelling I expect it to be up
to date.
• "I would much prefer using Bugzilla to track TODOs and use mailing
lists to brainstorm & get feedback & update proposals" - dneary

4. Running the brainstorm
• Create threads per part of maemo.org in forums
• Advertise the brainstorm widely (blog, news, mailing lists) with link
to Talk threads
• Synthesis discussion & proposals from threads in wiki pages
• ACTION: Create initial threads & announcements (dneary)

5. Effect of MeeGo on Maemo agenda

General agreement that it was early to say what the effect of MeeGo
might have on Maemo.

ACTION: Community Council to contact Tero Kojo to ask about future
maemo.org maintenance budget (Jaffa)

6. AOB

ACTION: dneary to produce minutes, X-Fade to publish IRC log

Very useful minutes, thank you!

We could have another meeting scheduled to address specifically this topic. Hopefully I can make it this time.