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droitwichgas is offline droitwichgas
2010-06-11 , 19:40
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#41
Originally Posted by qgil View Post
texrat, the rest of points you raise are related more to commercial than to maemo.org / open source / community / developer aspects. Out of my scope, and the best I can do is to help getting the right people/channels to communicate this not to maemo.org but to the whole N900 customer base.

I can brainstorm, discuss and even joke publicly about the topics related to the area I'm responsible of (open source / MeeGo / Maemo communities). I have this freedom in order to do efficiently my job in the community channels. But I simply can't speculate or announce anything somewhere here on commercial topics that the Nokia spokespersons or official channels haven't announced yet.

As Nokia N900 customers you could better organize your feedback around Nokia Care or Nokia Conversations rather than here in a community forum.
I think anybody who has posted on either on these sites will know they are unlikely to get any response however we can at least get nuggets of limited info. from people such as you, which give us hope that there is still some life left in the N900 even if Nokia themselves seem happy for it to die a slow death due to lack of support in the form games/apps/full sat nav etc.

Nokia conversations of course announced the following when PR1.2 arrived "First up – new games join the veritable arcade already on offer in Ovi Store. Jurassic 3D Rollercoaster, Zen-bound, Angry Birds (level pack), Sygic, Kroll, Weatherbug, and GoGadget are all available to keep you entertained. Important to note though that Ovi Store will do a full switchover this week Thursday, May 27, so these games and other for-purchase apps will show up then"

Since that time there has been no indication why these new games have never appeared on the Ovi store.

This forum is really the only place N900 owners can vent their frustration in Nokia and feel at least somebody is listening to them, perhaps the fact that these types of posts are increasing, as you say, should be a worry to Nokia themselves as they are showing N900 owners are becoming increasingly frustrated and therefore unlikely to purchase another Nokia device?
 

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qgil is offline qgil
2010-06-11 , 19:41
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#42
Please let's create a new thread about this "open testing" and let's move these posts there.

Originally Posted by Texrat View Post
So what does that say for MeeGo?
See my links above: http://wiki.meego.com/Quality_Assurance_Team + http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo_Release_Creation

Those willing to test the platform and the open source apps can jump on the train of permanent testing if they wish, like the users that most of the time are using beta/unstable releases in their own laptops.

Nokia proprietary apps will be a different story. We have seen that you can't mix open source and commercial ways of working. Testing in more focused and controlled environments (like Nokia Pilots) might make more sense in this case.
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Texrat is offline Texrat
2010-06-11 , 19:45
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#43
Thanks Quim.

I also posted in the "Maemo Missteps" thread on this and am now echoing to the mailing lists. Hopefully you will be able to address the critical points.
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qgil is offline qgil
2010-06-11 , 19:52
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#44
Originally Posted by droitwichgas View Post
This forum is really the only place N900 owners can vent their frustration in Nokia and feel at least somebody is listening to them
Trust me: Nokia Conversations.

If they announce something that doesn't happen or they announce something you dislike "venting your frustration" there is more productive than doing it here. Even if they don't talk about something you want them to talk about, there is a Suggest a topic link for that.

That is a Nokia official site devoted to have conversations with Nokia customers and anybody else interested. maemo.org is a community site and the Nokia guys around are really more effective and useful when they can do their work or hobby without customers reminding them about the things they know, are not responsible of and don't really feel like talking about. Less on a Friday night.
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Texrat is offline Texrat
2010-06-11 , 19:54
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#45
Originally Posted by qgil View Post
Trust me: Nokia Conversations.

If they announce something that doesn't happen or they announce something you dislike "venting your frustration" there is more productive than doing it here. Even if they don't talk about something you want them to talk about, there is a Suggest a topic link for that.

That is a Nokia official site devoted to have conversations with Nokia customers and anybody else interested. maemo.org is a community site and the Nokia guys around are really more effective and useful when they can do their work or hobby without customers reminding them about the things they know, are not responsible of and don't really feel like talking about. Less on a Friday night.
But what we really need is some sort of mix of the two. Hard for me to define further at the moment but I'm hopeful your intuition can fill in the gaps.
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Texrat is offline Texrat
2010-06-11 , 19:57
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#46
Originally Posted by qgil View Post
And to finish with http://tabulacrypticum.wordpress.com...teps-for-2010/



If the expectation and the parameter of measure is "open source" then yes, Maemo has been carrying many problems, in fact since its origins. Ultimately these problems go down to the mixture of open and closed components and processes, that impede to satisfy the expectations of an open source community. MeeGo is the solution proposed to this problem, aiming to push an open project with open dialog, evolutionary architecture and releases, all around a developer community.

If the expectation and the parameter of measure is "mobile platform" then I believe Maemo still is better than many alternatives in terms of openness, dialog and community. Product continuity is another story, but again if you look at the obstacles you will find that they are rooted in the closed/business parts of the project.

And well, it's always easy to blame the closed/business side of things but in the case of Maemo they have been crucial making this project scale in the agenda and priorities of a company like Nokia, instead of ending up like other alternative that didn't have such closed/business driver but then...

This is a company releasing products, competing in markets. Our salaries to do this work and the big investment to make these products come from somewhere. The community is extremely important but without the business all we would be somewhere else now.
Quim what I am personally looking for is simply (well simple to say) a reversal of the default engagement mode. Instead of starting closed and seeing what can be pried open for discussion, start open and make a damned good, solid case for closing it.

I know YOU get that. But having worked there myself, I know that Nokia doesn't quite... yet.
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qgil is offline qgil
2010-06-11 , 19:58
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#47
Originally Posted by Texrat View Post
ˇYes, for end users, but I don't see that for power users, testers, developers and other leaders. I tried engaging those forums from such a perspective and was put off. They really have no infrastructure and process for differentiating levels of user engagement it seems.
This thread is about complaints and I was referring mainly to channelling complaints.

If we are talking about "engagement" with "power users, testers, developers and other leaders" then yes maemo.org / meego.com fit the bill much better and this is one of the main reasons why we are all here.
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geneven is offline geneven
2010-06-11 , 20:00
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#48
Originally Posted by qgil View Post
maemo.org is a community site and the Nokia guys around are really more effective and useful when they can do their work or hobby without customers reminding them about the things they know, are not responsible of and don't really feel like talking about. Less on a Friday night.
This is why this site shouldn't be affiliated with Nokia. We customers who are here aren't wanted, really. But we were here before Nokia was here.
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sjgadsby is offline sjgadsby
2010-06-11 , 20:03
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#49
Originally Posted by qgil View Post
I can brainstorm, discuss and even joke publicly about the topics related to the area I'm responsible of (open source / MeeGo / Maemo communities). I have this freedom in order to do efficiently my job in the community channels. But I simply can't speculate or announce anything somewhere here on commercial topics that the Nokia spokespersons or official channels haven't announced yet.
While this is quite understandable, and by no means can we blame you personally for it, it leaves the community talking to the same wall to which we've been speaking for years.

Discussions outside the bunker, in the community, with people like ragnar and vitaly are things of the past, and that's a shame. We understood they couldn't give us inside information, and sometimes they argued points other community members didn't like, but just having them participate in the community, as community members, was positive and invigorating. Even the rare technical pointers and tidbits igor dropped on occasion were wonderful.

We're regressing toward communication levels approximating early-Texrat Maemo times. A sentence or two from Peter on the occasion of a new firmware update and sporadic "Just wait, MeeGo's coming!" messages from you aren't sufficient.

Nokia's gone head down, full speed on MeeGo work, but the next big thing is always what leaves this community standing outside, trying to catch a glimpse of something, anything happening beyond the shuttered windows.

MeeGo is still too much in the shadows, running silent and deep. Nokia dropped Elephanta as too small a step and rushed Fremantle out to hold everyone over during the wait for Harmattan, but these repeated waits for the next big, double-secret thing have worn the community's goodwill thin in a growing number of spots.

Openness, community integration, and increased communication are coming with MeeGo, I know, but they've been promise for some time. And yes, part of the pain of open source development is the public seeing those early, raw ingredients out on the countertop and then suffer the wait for the eventual feast. However, with MeeGo consisting of a string of big, future reveals, and Maemo not clearly showing how much life it has left, there's a large information deficit crying out to be filled.

It's not your place, qgil, I know. Heck, by definition it's not a task for one person, but Nokia needs to open up. Please, redouble your efforts to get the Maemo MeeGo division involved in the community. Thank you.
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Texrat is offline Texrat
2010-06-11 , 20:03
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#50
Originally Posted by qgil View Post
This thread is about complaints and I was referring mainly to channelling complaints.

If we are talking about "engagement" with "power users, testers, developers and other leaders" then yes maemo.org / meego.com fit the bill much better and this is one of the main reasons why we are all here.
Okay I apologize-- so many things flying around I blurred the subjects.

I do want to say I really appreciate you taking the time to help bridge tmo and my blog and to address the subjects individually. Thanks Quim.
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