BYE BYE N900 - Sad day Nokia! - Page 15 - maemo.org

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	Texrat	2010-08-11 , 02:01
	Posts: 11,700 \| Thanked: 10,045 times \| Joined on Jun 2006 @ North Texas, USA	#141

Originally Posted by H3llb0und

So, from what I understand, some people here are saying that we (yes, we the one's buying Nokia products) should just accept Nokia's inability or unwillingness to support a product that we paid at least US $500 for?.

There's actually a post stating that???

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	Texrat	2010-08-11 , 02:19
	Posts: 11,700 \| Thanked: 10,045 times \| Joined on Jun 2006 @ North Texas, USA	#142

Originally Posted by silvermountain

I had always thought that one (the only?) point in having a 'Council' w/in a community that is so tied to a commercial entity is to have that Council be the liaison between the community and the corporation.

Reading here http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council it does state that "The Council's mission is to "represent the Maemo community's best interests to Nokia".

So when you, as you have repeatedly done in this thread, *** what WE have done to 'fix things' I'd like to think that one answer is that 'we' bring up issues w/in the community forum and, hopefully, the 'Council' then realize these issues and brings them to Nokia's attention.

[Rant On]
I have however said in the past that I find the Council to be powerless, unstructured, incompetent and ineffective - and now, months later that SUBJECTIVE sentiment still stands.

I don't recall ever seeing a project plan with actual dates for anything the Council 'resides' over - or have listed as 'Hot Topics'. Nothing seems to get resolved and issues are either completely ignored or just sits in limbo for a year until it fades.

If anything I would vote for the 'Council' to be abolished next term as I bet no one would be able to tell the difference a year later.

It would however, I'm sure, be traumatic for some people to not have that dinky-toy title associated with them so there would be some resistance.
[/Rant Off]

So easy to armchair quarterback. To call names. To lay blame. To ignore effort and accomplishment.

So much more difficult to work one's *** off in such an apparently thankless position.

You think you're disappointed when council efforts come to nothing, silvermountain? Try putting in the hours I have. Try putting together a community outreach program and, just as you gain momentum after hours and hours and hours of design, review and discussion, the very reason for it disappears. Try writing and maintaining a blog partially dedicated to the community and having to stay on top of it to delete the juvenile nastygrams left by anonymous cowards. Try countless emails about community issues to various executives with no replies.

Try bending over backwards for myriad members of a community, some of whom leave petty, churlish posts like yours here as a "reward" for the effort.

As a community leader, council member or otherwise, I have gone to bat for this place and its people-- including you in all your nasty ingratitude. I was the one staying after work to dig through spare N800 parts, slicing my fingers on faceplates in the process, and mailing them out free to anyone who asked. I was the one who put my job at risk, angering people like Quim by challenging the tablet program to do better by the community. I'm the one enduring all the grief that malcontents like you dish out at a distance, in such cowardly fashion, because I'm stupid enough to care about people I'll never meet.

And that goes for every council member who's ever served.

Unstructured? Maybe to the anal retentive. Incompetent? An ironic assessment. Powerless and ineffective? Sure, at times. But only a complete idiot would confuse Nokia's monolithic resistance to change with the fault of five community people who care enough to devote their free time to that "futility".

What have YOU done?

Unbelieveable.

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Last edited by Texrat; 2010-08-11 at 02:32.

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	H3llb0und	2010-08-11 , 02:23
	Posts: 306 \| Thanked: 350 times \| Joined on Oct 2009 @ Sydney	#143

Originally Posted by Texrat

There's actually a post stating that???

You are kidding right?
Please tell me you are kidding.

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fatalsaint	2010-08-11 , 02:24
Posts: 3,428 \| Thanked: 2,856 times \| Joined on Jul 2008	#144

Originally Posted by gerbick

What you've described though... was application development.

I'm talking about OS support/development. That's where I think the closed bits + lack of support will become a problem. fMMS, DialCentral, et al has shown that this community knows how to develop applications... no doubt.

Right so now, again, we're back to stuff we can't really do much about.

<break from quote>

Look, to everyone arguing that complaining here does you good.. No, it doesn't! If you have something new that you don't think the council hasn't already pressed several times already.. then post. However, a liason between two entities can only do any good when both sides listen. In this case.. one side is largely ignoring several problems hoping that if they pretend it doesn't exist.. it'll just go away.. and that is not the council's fault.

Effectively.. Nokia has won though. They took this site, financed it, and then gave it to a "community" so you guys all bunched together on a forum to whine and complain and then they can conveniently ignore you. See how nicely that played out?

If you want to do something.. do as someone else suggested - gather as a group and mass email Nokia and blogs and make a difference.

This site is community-driven. The vast majority of people here participate on their free time, without getting paid. What we can try and help you with.. is applications you feel you're missing or (some) behavior you may want to change on your phone.

What we cannot help you with... is your daddy issues. Sure.. we have a Mommy (Council) here.. but when Dad's deaf and Mom doesn't speak Sign Language then what good is repeating yourself over and over again?

Anyone know the quote? "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results." We're playing it out well here..

ETA:

Texrat...

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Last edited by fatalsaint; 2010-08-11 at 02:27.

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	msa	2010-08-11 , 02:28
	Posts: 909 \| Thanked: 216 times \| Joined on Nov 2009 @ Bremen, Germany	#145

Originally Posted by Texrat

There's actually a post stating that???

the way some people defend nokia here does indicate that.

sometimes its better to copy a working scheme than to create a new one that has flaws.
i dont think anybody unappreciates what nokia tried with the n900, especially the ones in this community that are fond maemo/linux, but whats the price of it?

i mean, what would happen if apple dismissed their iphone 4 tomorrow? rest assure, hell's gonna break loose.

what would nokia do if the n900 had the iphone 4's problem? put on their coolface and ignore it?

Originally Posted by fatalsaint

If you have something new that you don't think the council hasn't already pressed several times already.. then post.

if the council reported stuff to nokia and if nokia reacted to issues the community points out, then the council wouldnt need to press "something" several times.

Last edited by msa; 2010-08-11 at 02:31.

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	Texrat	2010-08-11 , 02:31
	Posts: 11,700 \| Thanked: 10,045 times \| Joined on Jun 2006 @ North Texas, USA	#146

Originally Posted by H3llb0und

You are kidding right?
Please tell me you are kidding.

Can you show me?

Originally Posted by msa

the way some people defend nokia here does indicate that.

Indicate? He said people have excused Nokia for not supporting the product. Forget indicate, that's subjective. What posts?

if the council reported stuff to nokia and if nokia reacted to issues the community points out, then the council wouldnt need to press "something" several times.

We report every major community issue to Nokia. Usually ad nauseum. I'm still trying to understand how Nokia's resulting inaction is our fault. Help me out.

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Last edited by Texrat; 2010-08-11 at 02:38.

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	imperiallight	2010-08-11 , 02:33
	Posts: 857 \| Thanked: 362 times \| Joined on Feb 2009 @ London	#147

What surprised me was the amount of users/fanboy's saying they broadly agreed with Qwerty12's grievances despite showing no signs of it on previous threads (quite the opposite in fact).

Would have cut short alot of arguments on other threads.

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	H3llb0und	2010-08-11 , 02:34
	Posts: 306 \| Thanked: 350 times \| Joined on Oct 2009 @ Sydney	#148

Originally Posted by Texrat

Can you show me?

Dude I respect you and all you have done for this community, but are you telling me that you need an official post, announcement, open letter or Nokia's CEO to make a public statement to realize that Nokia just doesn't care about the N900 anymore?

Unless you know something that no one else here knows...

I have always defended the N900 and Maemo, but after being kicked in the nut sack a few times by Nokia, I am not going to give them another chance.

Edit:
Texrat, I think you are taking this too personally.
I am not attacking you or anyone else here, just Nokia.

Last edited by H3llb0und; 2010-08-11 at 02:40.

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	Texrat	2010-08-11 , 02:38
	Posts: 11,700 \| Thanked: 10,045 times \| Joined on Jun 2006 @ North Texas, USA	#149

Originally Posted by H3llb0und

Dude I respect you and all you have done for this community, but are you telling me that you need an official post, announcement, open letter or Nokia's CEO to make a public statement to realize that Nokia just doesn't care about the N900 anymore?

That wasn't what you said. I'm responding to your specific words.

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fatalsaint	2010-08-11 , 02:40
Posts: 3,428 \| Thanked: 2,856 times \| Joined on Jul 2008	#150

Originally Posted by msa

if the council reported stuff to nokia and if nokia reacted to issues the community points out, then the council wouldnt need to press "something" several times.

True.. and again.. the fault here lies with, who? exactly?

Originally Posted by imperiallight

What surprised me was the amount of users/fanboy's saying they broadly agreed with Qwerty12's grievances despite showing no signs of it on previous threads (quite the opposite in fact).

Would have cut short alot of arguments on other threads.

I don't know if you meant me.. but one thing I can offer:

Some of us don't see the point in constantly complaining about **** we can't change.. so we work on the projects we're involved in and make our devices as much what we want them to be as we can.

Just because someone doesn't flood every thread going "Gosh, Nokia Sucks!" doesn't make them a fanboy. Same goes for just because someone says "That's not actually Nokia's fault".. because not everything can be blamed on someone else.