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Karel Jansens |
2007-10-12
, 15:43
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Posts: 3,220 |
Thanked: 326 times |
Joined on Oct 2005
@ "Almost there!" (Monte Christo, Count of)
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#351
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Originally Posted by Milhouse
Yes, there is: It means you can't come up with good stuff on your own.
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2007-10-12
, 15:55
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Posts: 415 |
Thanked: 44 times |
Joined on Apr 2007
@ Austin, Texas
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#352
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Originally Posted by Texrat
Texrat,
Well, again, I can't get too deep into specifics. There are certainly some nice obvious enhancements but to me the most important aspect (and this is publicized on the maemo Chinook page) is the stage being set for the NEXT major update.
I know you've reserved the right to hint and tease, and that you can't address certain things directly, so perhaps you can answer my question obliquely:
Let's say that I have an old cat (I do, actually). She's not well; the vet told me she's likely to die in about six months. Will I be able to use Chinook before my pet passes on?
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2007-10-12
, 18:30
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Posts: 11,700 |
Thanked: 10,045 times |
Joined on Jun 2006
@ North Texas, USA
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#353
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Originally Posted by Greyghost
ROFL.
Texrat,
I know you've reserved the right to hint and tease, and that you can't address certain things directly, so perhaps you can answer my question obliquely:
Let's say that I have an old cat (I do, actually). She's not well; the vet told me she's likely to die in about six months. Will I be able to use Chinook before my pet passes on?
Even with this oncoming migraine, you made me laugh.
And I can't answer, because ragnar will send Thoughtwaves of Increased Pain my way and I'm already reaching my limit...
__________________
Nokia Developer Champion
Different <> Wrong | Listen - Judgment = Progress | People + Trust = Success
My personal site: http://texrat.net
Nokia Developer Champion
Different <> Wrong | Listen - Judgment = Progress | People + Trust = Success
My personal site: http://texrat.net
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2007-10-12
, 20:04
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Posts: 3,401 |
Thanked: 1,255 times |
Joined on Nov 2005
@ London, UK
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#354
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A wild stab in the dark, new firmware and a new device in the first week of January 2008 - CES 2008 runs from Monday 7-10 January!
No doubt devices will be on sale during the previous weekend if history repeats!
Oh, and if there is a separate hard-cover screen protector accessory being touted around at CES 2008 for the new device, please don't take a full 8-9 months before you put it on sale (like last time). Thanks.
Last edited by Milhouse; 2007-10-12 at 20:07.
No doubt devices will be on sale during the previous weekend if history repeats!
Oh, and if there is a separate hard-cover screen protector accessory being touted around at CES 2008 for the new device, please don't take a full 8-9 months before you put it on sale (like last time). Thanks.
Last edited by Milhouse; 2007-10-12 at 20:07.
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2007-10-12
, 20:54
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Posts: 237 |
Thanked: 167 times |
Joined on Feb 2007
@ Powell, OH
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#355
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I know nothing of Nokia's release plans but I would guess the N900(?) is done given it has passed the FCC test. And we know chinook SDK is in beta. So if you assume the new device will feature chinook and it's consumer oriented. Then, one would assume you would release it prior to the US Thanksgiving holiday, both OS and new device to capture the largest marketing opportunity in the US. This coupled with the recent price drop of the N800.
The N800 January launch was a surprise, but I had to convince my wife I needed to spend $400 after Christmas for a new toy. Not an easy thing to do.
My birthday is Nov. 14th so I'm betting somewhere around that date. At the very least our buddies at the FCC will shed some light on the device.
On a side note would it hurt Nokia to demo the new unit, or leak some information. Didn't hurt Apple any demoing a device that wasn't going to be released for 6 months. I don't think the iPhone would have sold as well if they hadn't. I would argue the release was anticlimactic to the build-up. But it does successfully stall the market for this type of device (competitors). For Apple that didn't have any products in the channel it worked well.
-- my thoughts
Last edited by theflew; 2007-10-12 at 20:58.
The N800 January launch was a surprise, but I had to convince my wife I needed to spend $400 after Christmas for a new toy. Not an easy thing to do.
My birthday is Nov. 14th so I'm betting somewhere around that date. At the very least our buddies at the FCC will shed some light on the device.
On a side note would it hurt Nokia to demo the new unit, or leak some information. Didn't hurt Apple any demoing a device that wasn't going to be released for 6 months. I don't think the iPhone would have sold as well if they hadn't. I would argue the release was anticlimactic to the build-up. But it does successfully stall the market for this type of device (competitors). For Apple that didn't have any products in the channel it worked well.
-- my thoughts
Last edited by theflew; 2007-10-12 at 20:58.
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2007-10-13
, 06:48
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Posts: 415 |
Thanked: 44 times |
Joined on Apr 2007
@ Austin, Texas
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#356
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Originally Posted by Texrat
Ah, cursed ragnar! His scurvy breath doth truly revile the nostrils, and his vicious Thoughtwaves can render even the most noble superhero weak and drive him to worship at the porcelain altar and pray for death. I too suffer from migraines, and today, curiously, had one of the more genle variety, though which it appears I could not only function well enough to get to work and read the forums but also managed to salvage my day by amusing you!
ROFL.
Even with this oncoming migraine, you made me laugh.
And I can't answer, because ragnar will send Thoughtwaves of Increased Pain my way and I'm already reaching my limit...
Happy as I am to entertain you, perhaps, tho, on another day when ragnar is occupied elsewhere, you might talk about what is involved with a major release and what you think the Nokia team are planning. Just your thoughts, no promises.
Mil's observation about the dates of CES in January being tied to the announcement makes sense to me. But then, so do theflew's thoughts about a November release. What say you? Can I sneak in a new toy before the holidays, or do I too have to convince my bride that I 'need' a new toy after them?
Last edited by Greyghost; 2007-10-13 at 06:58.
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2007-10-13
, 14:32
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Posts: 1,463 |
Thanked: 81 times |
Joined on Oct 2005
@ UK
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#357
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Originally Posted by Texrat
How can the N800 help with most people's work, though? There's no decent cross-solution VPN support, so I can't get access to my work email. There's no built-in or reasonably feature complete and reliable calendar with easy to configure synchronisation (I've had Outlook synchronising with GPE without touching the command line, but it's beyond the wit of your average user), there's no ..., there's no....
I defer to iBall's comment in another thread. Those IT professionals you lunch with may give the N800 a hard time at the table, but if they had to select a device to actually help them with their work, the iPhone won't be it.
As you yourself have pointed out, this is an N-series device, not an E-series. So it's not aimed at business users. Which means (not disparingly) it's a toy. No-one *needs* a NIT. No-one will make more money by having a NIT. The same with an iPhone or an iPod Touch (look how similar they are ;-))
They are all devices which should be a pleasure to use, because they're adults' toys. That's fine. I like gadgets.
I like *playing* with the open nature of the NIT - whether on the PC side or on the device itself. I'd like *using* an iPhone or an iPod Touch as a media player.
I say that as an IT professional who uses his N800 in a work environment quite often. The iPhone flat cannot do nor will the current incarnation ever be able to do what I'm needing.
Cheers,
Andrew
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2007-10-13
, 16:16
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Posts: 11,700 |
Thanked: 10,045 times |
Joined on Jun 2006
@ North Texas, USA
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#358
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Originally Posted by aflegg
I have access to a homegrown proprietary VPN tool, true, but there is no reason I can think of why any third party has not created one for general use. I see a lot of need, a lot of talk, and a lot of hacking here and there, but no cohesive effort. Disappointing. And no, I don't know why the tool I use is not made available to the public.
How can the N800 help with most people's work, though? There's no decent cross-solution VPN support, so I can't get access to my work email. There's no built-in or reasonably feature complete and reliable calendar with easy to configure synchronisation (I've had Outlook synchronising with GPE without touching the command line, but it's beyond the wit of your average user), there's no ..., there's no....
As you yourself have pointed out, this is an N-series device, not an E-series. So it's not aimed at business users. Which means (not disparingly) it's a toy. No-one *needs* a NIT. No-one will make more money by having a NIT. The same with an iPhone or an iPod Touch (look how similar they are ;-))
They are all devices which should be a pleasure to use, because they're adults' toys. That's fine. I like gadgets.
I like *playing* with the open nature of the NIT - whether on the PC side or on the device itself. I'd like *using* an iPhone or an iPod Touch as a media player.
No, but I suspect you're the minority: not many people will be able to use the N800 as something productive in their work environment either.
Cheers,
Andrew
However, there ARE some VPN tools that people are using, and since we're talking IT pros, they don't seem too concerned about having to use xterm (another thing I doubt the iPhone will ever have) to utilize them. In addition, there are posts all throughout this forum of advanced users enjoying their N800s in an IT support capacity. Maybe I'm in the minority of a minority, but I challenge you: how many iPhone owners do you think are able to use the device to access work servers?
My point was that you're not going to be able to use an iPhone, much less an iPod, to do these things. So I was comparing/contrasting, not getting into the minute details of what the N800 can't do well or at all.
Bottom line, we are talking IT pros, not casual (or even regular business) users, and your post above seems to blue the lines...
__________________
Nokia Developer Champion
Different <> Wrong | Listen - Judgment = Progress | People + Trust = Success
My personal site: http://texrat.net
Nokia Developer Champion
Different <> Wrong | Listen - Judgment = Progress | People + Trust = Success
My personal site: http://texrat.net
Last edited by Texrat; 2007-10-13 at 16:18.
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2007-10-13
, 17:01
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Posts: 1,513 |
Thanked: 2,248 times |
Joined on Mar 2006
@ US
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#359
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Originally Posted by Texrat
and your post is yet another "but the N800 can do something the itouch can't do (if only someone else, not Nokia, would write the software so the N800 could do something the itouch can't do)"
I have access to a homegrown proprietary VPN tool, true, but there is no reason I can think of why any third party has not created one for general use. I see a lot of need, a lot of talk, and a lot of hacking here and there, but no cohesive effort. Disappointing. And no, I don't know why the tool I use is not made available to the public.
However, there ARE some VPN tools that people are using, and since we're talking IT pros, they don't seem too concerned about having to use xterm (another thing I doubt the iPhone will ever have) to utilize them. In addition, there are posts all throughout this forum of advanced users enjoying their N800s in an IT support capacity. Maybe I'm in the minority of a minority, but I challenge you: how many iPhone owners do you think are able to use the device to access work servers?
My point was that you're not going to be able to use an iPhone, much less an iPod, to do these things. So I was comparing/contrasting, not getting into the minute details of what the N800 can't do well or at all.
Bottom line, we are talking IT pros, not casual (or even regular business) users, and your post above seems to blue the lines...
you want to compare/contrast without discussing what the N800 can't do???
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2007-10-13
, 17:50
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Posts: 3,401 |
Thanked: 1,255 times |
Joined on Nov 2005
@ London, UK
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#360
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So is the target market for the N800 "IT Pros" who can/will use their devices at work? Wow, that's a _tiny_ market we're aiming for!
And what makes it even smaller is that most organisations - if they care anything about security - don't let WiFi networks any where near their internal corporate LAN, rendering the N800 useless for "IT Pro" work IMHO. Where I work, in the financial industry, my employer even goes so far as to actually jam the 2.4GHz WiFi radio spectrum within the premises preventing access to the numerous external WiFi hotspots located just yards from where I sit!
It's all very well saying IT Pros will use the N800 professionally (which is a laugh when you consider that Kismet - a potentially "Professional" piece of software for all sorts of industries - doesn't work properly because of faults in Nokia closed source firmware), however in my experience WiFi access to corporate networks is a very rare (and monumentally misguided) thing indeed.
The only time I use WiFi on my N800 is at home, and I use BT/3G "on the road" (but having just discovered that I've got a £30 charge coming my way from O2 for only a few days 3G/GPRS access, I need to find another network provider that doesn't gouge me just for accessing my webmail!!!)
Last edited by Milhouse; 2007-10-13 at 17:57.
And what makes it even smaller is that most organisations - if they care anything about security - don't let WiFi networks any where near their internal corporate LAN, rendering the N800 useless for "IT Pro" work IMHO. Where I work, in the financial industry, my employer even goes so far as to actually jam the 2.4GHz WiFi radio spectrum within the premises preventing access to the numerous external WiFi hotspots located just yards from where I sit!
It's all very well saying IT Pros will use the N800 professionally (which is a laugh when you consider that Kismet - a potentially "Professional" piece of software for all sorts of industries - doesn't work properly because of faults in Nokia closed source firmware), however in my experience WiFi access to corporate networks is a very rare (and monumentally misguided) thing indeed.
The only time I use WiFi on my N800 is at home, and I use BT/3G "on the road" (but having just discovered that I've got a £30 charge coming my way from O2 for only a few days 3G/GPRS access, I need to find another network provider that doesn't gouge me just for accessing my webmail!!!)
Last edited by Milhouse; 2007-10-13 at 17:57.
