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AndyNokia232 |
2011-02-07
, 16:03
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Posts: 590 |
Thanked: 475 times |
Joined on Oct 2010
@ New York City
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#1
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With the internet rife with stories relating to CEO Elop firing top executives on the board of Nokia, I can't help but wonder. Is he trying to save money by getting rid of the people who may have not pulled their weight in 2010 but are paid a substantial amount, or is he getting them out because they are not aware of their shortcomings (incompetent) which has damaged Nokia's sales and reputation? If those are the people responsible for Nokia's continuing lack of support for their products (N900 case in point) or the totally confusing decisions to put free voice navigation on only some of their phones, or the closure of the flagship stores (the one in New York was a wonderful presence, now gone from 57th St - and Nokia is mostly gone from the minds of US consumers) then good riddance. Like the rest of the geeks, I can't wait for Friday's announcement on Nokia's future. I really hope he gets it right.
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2011-02-07
, 16:09
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Guest |
Posts: n/a |
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Joined on
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#2
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Matters on who you ask. If you ask people here, your answer will invariably be that he's cutting Nokia off at the ankles to make room for his Microsoft brethren.
If you ask the stockholders, he's cutting off the essential folks that make Nokia great.
If you ask the analysts, he's trimming the fat and lowering the redundancy.
And if you're asking me... I'm all about the wait and see. You don't become more profitable by trimming personnel in the long-term. That's a short-term cost saving measure usually. You become profitable by releasing products, on-time, to a "hungry" audience that's looking for your product. Be it by perceived brand recognition (Nokia has that in spades) or great product quality (again, Nokia has this) or ultimately innovation (been lacking here a bit if you were to ask the average user, not the one's that know of the patents, of MeeGo, of Maemo nor have taken the time to actually read and research) and hitting a stride with a product that they will want.
With that said... I've seen Nokia do things that made no sense in my region - North America. I can't say that they've done the same in Europe and Asia - where they've continued to sell well.
Let's see if that continues down the line.
If you ask the stockholders, he's cutting off the essential folks that make Nokia great.
If you ask the analysts, he's trimming the fat and lowering the redundancy.
And if you're asking me... I'm all about the wait and see. You don't become more profitable by trimming personnel in the long-term. That's a short-term cost saving measure usually. You become profitable by releasing products, on-time, to a "hungry" audience that's looking for your product. Be it by perceived brand recognition (Nokia has that in spades) or great product quality (again, Nokia has this) or ultimately innovation (been lacking here a bit if you were to ask the average user, not the one's that know of the patents, of MeeGo, of Maemo nor have taken the time to actually read and research) and hitting a stride with a product that they will want.
With that said... I've seen Nokia do things that made no sense in my region - North America. I can't say that they've done the same in Europe and Asia - where they've continued to sell well.
Let's see if that continues down the line.
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2011-02-07
, 16:59
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Posts: 590 |
Thanked: 475 times |
Joined on Oct 2010
@ New York City
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#3
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Great response. Nokia always seem to do very well in Europe (and elsewhere) but not so in the US. When you say "a hungry audience" the first thing I thought of was the Verizon iPhone - man that thing is going to sell out in less than a second! Perhaps if Nokia marketed MeeGo before a handset is released, it might offer consumers 'the something different' many of them want or would be interested in while iOS and Android stomp all over the country. Getting them to lick their lips - and be a little knowledgeable and aware - of MeeGo before the actual devices are let loose in the wild might help US sales greatly. But if Elop is cutting off ankles in a non-sensical cost-cutting measure (after already spending billion$ on MeeGo's development) then I think he is being a daft bugger. The focus should be on building (back) up a well-loved and reliable brand and its reputation. Wait and see? I can't wait to see... 
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2011-02-07
, 18:02
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Guest |
Posts: n/a |
Thanked: 0 times |
Joined on
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#4
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If MeeGo were to be marketed before its release, then what would they market? It's hard to market a concept. It's harder to market true freedom to do just about anything you wish.
It's incredibly easy to market just a few bullet points - just pay attention to any Apple ad, they're basically one or two bullet points, explained over a song and for 15-30 seconds repeatedly.
The money going into MeeGo means they're serious about getting it right... I hope. But what they need to do now... is deliver a set of features that a wide range of users will use, enjoy and expand upon. But that requires more than just a concept.
Selling folks that they will have root access and a terminal will only get you so far. Vendors and people committed to bringing more than just one iteration of their software will be key. So far, that's not been the case for Maemo. A committed upgrade path per each device is key - each iPhone got 3 major iterations of their iOS, Android upgrade path is somewhat spotty, but the machines that got Android upgrades were considered "cost savers" and forward thinking.
Marketing in North America is not going to happen overnight. Nor will Nokia get it right - they haven't for almost a decade. So just concentrate in Europe and Asia. Get the features that everybody wants... and then refocus in the areas where they need to expand.
Politics and fandom aside; I want Nokia to do well. I just know that they have an uphill battle in North America. So... let's be honest. They shouldn't concentrate in this area at all. Cultivate the bigger and faster growing markets, then deliver proven, solid projects in North America and Japan with a desktop software compliment that works in OS X, Linux and 64-bit versions of Windows.
It's incredibly easy to market just a few bullet points - just pay attention to any Apple ad, they're basically one or two bullet points, explained over a song and for 15-30 seconds repeatedly.
The money going into MeeGo means they're serious about getting it right... I hope. But what they need to do now... is deliver a set of features that a wide range of users will use, enjoy and expand upon. But that requires more than just a concept.
Selling folks that they will have root access and a terminal will only get you so far. Vendors and people committed to bringing more than just one iteration of their software will be key. So far, that's not been the case for Maemo. A committed upgrade path per each device is key - each iPhone got 3 major iterations of their iOS, Android upgrade path is somewhat spotty, but the machines that got Android upgrades were considered "cost savers" and forward thinking.
Marketing in North America is not going to happen overnight. Nor will Nokia get it right - they haven't for almost a decade. So just concentrate in Europe and Asia. Get the features that everybody wants... and then refocus in the areas where they need to expand.
Politics and fandom aside; I want Nokia to do well. I just know that they have an uphill battle in North America. So... let's be honest. They shouldn't concentrate in this area at all. Cultivate the bigger and faster growing markets, then deliver proven, solid projects in North America and Japan with a desktop software compliment that works in OS X, Linux and 64-bit versions of Windows.
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2011-02-07
, 18:54
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Posts: 5,335 |
Thanked: 8,187 times |
Joined on Mar 2007
@ Pennsylvania, USA
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#5
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Originally Posted by AndyNokia232
Weren't there articles published just a short time ago in which it was said that Anssi Vanjoki's plan, had he become CEO, was to immediately fire most of Nokia's executives? Unless my memory is playing tricks, Elop isn't alone in his assessment of Nokia's top ranks.
With the internet rife with stories relating to CEO Elop firing top executives on the board of Nokia, I can't help but wonder. Is he trying to save money by getting rid of the people who may have not pulled their weight in 2010 but are paid a substantial amount, or is he getting them out because they are not aware of their shortcomings (incompetent) which has damaged Nokia's sales and reputation?
Over the past year, I've read a number of articles relating different insider tales of innovation squashed by inter-division empire building and fear of change at Nokia. That old refrain here, "it's hard to turn a ship as large as Nokia", only conveys part of the problem if a sizable chunk of the company is rowing as hard as they can back toward the old, straight course to insignificance.
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2011-02-07
, 20:29
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Posts: 590 |
Thanked: 475 times |
Joined on Oct 2010
@ New York City
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#6
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The old, straight course to insignificance could be straight over the top of the waterfall. Make sure you've got your lifesavers!
@gerbick: Yeah, y'know, you maybe right. North America is one helluva market if you can access it, but if you disown your ever-loyal European customers to win the stubborn hearts of the Americans by spreading yourself too thin, then fuggedaboudit. The USA will be very happy with their iPhones, BBs and Droids in every jacket pocket across the land. I will be disappointed with one of my favorite brands of all time if they lose their creativity and innovation in some doomed attempt to be 'the next big thing' in the US cell phone market. They should stick to what they do best, unless, of course, MeeGo is marketed in the US in a clever, subliminal way that makes people want to rush out and buy a MeeGo device, even if they're not 100% why they must have it!
@gerbick: Yeah, y'know, you maybe right. North America is one helluva market if you can access it, but if you disown your ever-loyal European customers to win the stubborn hearts of the Americans by spreading yourself too thin, then fuggedaboudit. The USA will be very happy with their iPhones, BBs and Droids in every jacket pocket across the land. I will be disappointed with one of my favorite brands of all time if they lose their creativity and innovation in some doomed attempt to be 'the next big thing' in the US cell phone market. They should stick to what they do best, unless, of course, MeeGo is marketed in the US in a clever, subliminal way that makes people want to rush out and buy a MeeGo device, even if they're not 100% why they must have it!
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2011-02-07
, 21:01
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Posts: 3,464 |
Thanked: 5,107 times |
Joined on Feb 2010
@ Gothenburg in Sweden
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#7
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Originally Posted by AndyNokia232
If you think Elop give a **** about a small phone like N900 well you probadly is totally wrong. There probadly is alot bigger stuff to "cleanup/refresh" inside nokia atm..
With the internet rife with stories relating to CEO Elop firing top executives on the board of Nokia, I can't help but wonder. Is he trying to save money by getting rid of the people who may have not pulled their weight in 2010 but are paid a substantial amount, or is he getting them out because they are not aware of their shortcomings (incompetent) which has damaged Nokia's sales and reputation? If those are the people responsible for Nokia's continuing lack of support for their products (N900 case in point) or the totally confusing decisions to put free voice navigation on only some of their phones, or the closure of the flagship stores (the one in New York was a wonderful presence, now gone from 57th St - and Nokia is mostly gone from the minds of US consumers) then good riddance. Like the rest of the geeks, I can't wait for Friday's announcement on Nokia's future. I really hope he gets it right.
N900 was bought mostly by "geeks" and was developed internally by a small group of geeks that wanted to see something new... I am sure this N700/N800/N900 was seen as an expriment inside Nokia. Not for massmarket even if some here thought soo...
But hopefully some of those old dinasaurs that makes most of the money on old symbian codebase is kicked! But my guess is not, cause thing is those engineers probadly dancing Elops pipe now to not get kicked and the open source people at Nokia will still be minimum. Thats includes those working with Meego in open... They probadly will still be the slave or seen as small groups of geeks.
Last edited by mikecomputing; 2011-02-07 at 21:15.
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2011-02-07
, 21:12
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Posts: 3,464 |
Thanked: 5,107 times |
Joined on Feb 2010
@ Gothenburg in Sweden
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#8
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Originally Posted by gerbick
Hmm but how much do they invest on Meego atm? My guess is not to much I mean there where some "bussinessreport" last week how much was invested in what. If I remember right it was about 1200 billions on SymbianUI/Symbiankernel totally.
The money going into MeeGo means they're serious about getting it right... I hope. But what they need to do now... is deliver a set of features that a wide range of users will use, enjoy and expand upon. But that requires more than just a concept.
And about 300 billion in Meego AND QT? My guess is QT is the biggest on those two...
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2011-02-07
, 21:17
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Posts: 3,464 |
Thanked: 5,107 times |
Joined on Feb 2010
@ Gothenburg in Sweden
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#9
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Originally Posted by sjgadsby
from swedish media:
Weren't there articles published just a short time ago in which it was said that Anssi Vanjoki's plan, had he become CEO, was to immediately fire most of Nokia's executives? Unless my memory is playing tricks, Elop isn't alone in his assessment of Nokia's top ranks.
Over the past year, I've read a number of articles relating different insider tales of innovation squashed by inter-division empire building and fear of change at Nokia. That old refrain here, "it's hard to turn a ship as large as Nokia", only conveys part of the problem if a sizable chunk of the company is rowing as hard as they can back toward the old, straight course to insignificance.
https://www.avanza.se/aza/press/news...cleId=N1770387
"(Bloomberg) Stora Enso CEO Jouko Karvinen, Statoil CEO Helge Lund, Sampo's CEO Kari Stadigh and Nokia's CEO Stephen Elop proposed new board members in Nokia.
For Bengt Holmström, Henning Kagermann, Per Karlsson, Isabel Marey-Semper, Jorma Ollila, Marjorie Scardino and Risto Siilasmaa proposed re-election.
According to the notice of the Nokia's AGM."
Last edited by mikecomputing; 2011-02-07 at 21:20.
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2011-02-08
, 01:06
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Posts: n/a |
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#10
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Originally Posted by mikecomputing
Not being a prick here; but it's more than just a little that's been invested so far. And the initial announcement being February 15th, 2010 and almost a full year later absolutely nothing being shown in final form yet is... well, disappointing.
Hmm but how much do they invest on Meego atm? My guess is not to much I mean there where some "bussinessreport" last week how much was invested in what. If I remember right it was about 1200 billions on SymbianUI/Symbiankernel totally.
And about 300 billion in Meego AND QT? My guess is QT is the biggest on those two...
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