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benny1967 is offline benny1967
2011-02-13 , 19:51
Posts: 3,790 | Thanked: 5,718 times | Joined on Mar 2006 @ Vienna, Austria
#1321
Originally Posted by mmurfin87 View Post
None of these, either together or separately, are required parts of an operating system.
We agree. None of these are required parts of an operating system. Of course not. I said they're what makes a smartphone operating system. Not having copy&paste, multitasking and friends leaves you with a non-smart operating system.

Originally Posted by mmurfin87 View Post
All an operating system really is required to do is allow a user to run programs of their choice. ANYTHING beyond that qualifies as smart.
Not really. An operating system is required for any application, built -in or third party, to access the phone's hardware, to start, to quit. That's the bare minimum. No "programs of [users] choice" here. Some phone operating systems don't give you much of a choice, they don't even have the concept of installable applications.

Also, it's wrong that anything beyond that qualifies as smart. Take Nokia's S40, for example. It can run applications, it even supports some basic multitasking for built-in applications... Is that enough of "anything beyond that" to make it a smartphone OS? No. Certainly not. Nor are the tricks WP7 can perform enough to make it a smartphone OS.

Originally Posted by mmurfin87 View Post
Services:
Xbox integration: [...]
Zune: [...]
Windows Live: [...]
Then there's the social integration. [...]
Services are nice if you really want them, but they have nothing to do with the OS you use and they don't make it smarter at all. Service integration is an application that sits on top of the OS, so you can have any service tied to any OS. Again, recent S40 phones have both Ovi- and non-Nokia services integrated nicely; still, this doesn't make S40 a smartphone OS. Nor does XBox integration make WP7 a smartphone OS.

On the contrary: Most everywhere "service integration" is an euphemism for vendor lock in. (Or does your XBox integration work with your Wii or PS3?) Vendor lock in is one of the things you want to escape by using a smartphone. For easy tasks like syncing contacts etc., some 'dumb' featurephones require you to either install an application provided by the manufacturer or use the manufacturer's cloud service. - A serious smartphone helps you break these chains and use whatever standard-compliant sync-mechanism you used before. It just drops in.


Originally Posted by mmurfin87 View Post
WP7 isn't a smartphone, its the future of phones.
I agree. It sure isn't a smartphone. But it sure is in line what consumers want to buy. It's like the iPhone: Dumb as the Nokia C3, but more expensive and therefore desirable. Yes, this is the future of phones. Plain phones I'm no longer interested in, or else I would still use my (fully working) Nokia 6230.
 

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stickymick is offline stickymick
2011-02-13 , 19:53
Posts: 1,079 | Thanked: 1,019 times | Joined on Mar 2010
#1322
Originally Posted by mmurfin87 View Post
Absolutely, no doubt at all.



None of these, either together or separately, are required parts of an operating system.
All an operating system really is required to do is allow a user to run programs of their choice. ANYTHING beyond that qualifies as smart.



Zune: A huge catalog of drm-free music at competitive prices. Also available is the Zune Pass, of which I've been a subscriber for a few years now. I can download whatever I want, whenever I want, wherever I want, and however much of it I want. No hassles. I get to pick 10 of my favorite songs each month and they're mine forever, no questions asked. I can have only my phone, and stream the vast majority of songs available on the marketplace seamlessly. If I'm at my computer I can use the fantastic software client to manage/buy/play my music. If I'm at the library, I can log into the zune website and stream music through the web browser. I mean the abilities are astounding! Plus every night I go to bed, plug in my phone right beside me nowhere near my computer, but when I wake up the next morning all my new music and podcasts from the computer are magically on my phone. New pictures and music I have on my phone are on my computer.

I can go on, and I probably will to correct some of the blatant idiocy I'm reading in this forum, but for now I'm going to get some pizza.
Is that before or after you've struggled to click through dozens of ads while connected to the 2G network at the breakneck speed of 14.4 kbps and missed half a dozen calls because you don't live in a 3G/3.5G area?

Let's face it at £5 for 1GB usage cap and the total lack of interest shown by the networks in investing in their infrastructure, it's gonna be a costly, painful experience, and that pizza is gonna get cold pretty quick.
 
mmurfin87 is offline mmurfin87
2011-02-13 , 20:04
Posts: 307 | Thanked: 157 times | Joined on Jul 2009 @ Illinois, USA
#1323
Originally Posted by stickymick View Post
Is that before or after you've struggled to click through dozens of ads while connected to the 2G network at the breakneck speed of 14.4 kbps and missed half a dozen calls because you don't live in a 3G/3.5G area?

Let's face it at £5 for 1GB usage cap and the total lack of interest shown by the networks in investing in their infrastructure, it's gonna be a costly, painful experience, and that pizza is gonna get cold pretty quick.
There aren't ads anywhere on the Zune service.
 
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zwer is offline zwer
2011-02-13 , 20:14
Posts: 455 | Thanked: 782 times | Joined on Nov 2009 @ Netherlands
#1324
Originally Posted by mmurfin87 View Post
There aren't ads anywhere on the Zune service.
Refuting your love letter to WP7 would be, as Crashdamage said, clearly pointless, but can you at least answer this one: why would you have to use a specific, proprietary software just to transfer a bunch bytes to your device? Name me one good reason.

And do you consider that as a feature of a good/smart/whatever platform? Honestly?

P.S. And what happens when/if one day the creator of that software decides to fill it with ads, or decides to prevent you to use that software to upload to your device (is it yours?) anything that is not on their own tightly controlled servers?
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Last edited by zwer; 2011-02-13 at 20:18.
 

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stickymick is offline stickymick
2011-02-13 , 20:23
Posts: 1,079 | Thanked: 1,019 times | Joined on Mar 2010
#1325
Originally Posted by zwer View Post
P.S. And what happens when/if one day the creator of that software decides to fill it with ads, or decides to prevent you to use that software to upload to your device (is it yours?) anything that is not on their own tightly controlled servers?
I believe that's in the future roadmap for WP7.
I'll see if I can dig up the link where I read it, but apparently there's going to be a few "failsafes" built in, so if you do manage to block the ads service there will be other methods of retrieval built into the O/S
 
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Reggie is offline Reggie
2011-02-13 , 21:40
Posts: 1,436 | Thanked: 3,144 times | Joined on Jul 2005
#1326
Originally Posted by mece View Post
noteworthy bit of information: Stephen Elop is the 7th largest single person Microsoft shareholder, and own no Nokia stock whatsoever.
I hope legal action will be taken. it's not too late to undo this (ok probably it is, but one can dream)
Elop answers this question plus others:
http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/13/l...a-at-mwc-2011/

"About me being the 7th largest shareholder in Microsoft: that is not true. That would be a substantial amount of money that I don't have... when I moved from Microsoft from Nokia, I was legally prohibited from selling my shares. As soon as that lifted, I began selling. But when our discussions began, I had to stop selling again -- the laws are very clear. As soon as the legal restrictions lift, of course I'll sell those shares. I have been given an equity position in Nokia" but that won't be disclosed until later in the year for some financial and legal reasons."
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vi_ is offline vi_
2011-02-13 , 21:54
Posts: 1,680 | Thanked: 3,685 times | Joined on Jan 2011
#1327
Originally Posted by horus View Post
This is my 2 cents;

As a consumer I have been using Windows Phone 7 back since I reviewed it in November and I must say I love the operating system. It is fast and ridiculously responsive. I have turned on my N900 from time to time and it is painstaking how slow it is. As for 'features' it's not really missing much except USB OTG. The app market though is very healthy, the current fastest growing out of the major three.

From a Developer perspective there are other bonuses too; the platform is ridiculously easy to develop for and the tools are world class. Microsoft are renowned in the business for making their developer tools outstanding and the ones for Windows Phone 7 are no exception. I personally love developing for the platform.

From a world wide approach it makes sense. From a competitive advantage point of view the Maemo / MeeGo customers couldn't competitively sustain a company like Nokia and they needed to change.
I am browsing this forum from my n900, you cannot even copy and paste.

'nuff said.
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GeraldKo is offline GeraldKo
2011-02-13 , 22:04
Posts: 1,950 | Thanked: 1,174 times | Joined on Jan 2008 @ Seattle, USA
#1328
Originally Posted by vi_ View Post
I am browsing this forum from my n900, you cannot even copy and paste.

'nuff said.
My guess is that it's "'nuff said" about the user. I don't own an N900, but I copy and paste to this forum all the time from my N800.

Edit: Oh, by "you", you mean the user of the WP7 OS. As in, "I, owner of the N900, can cut and paste, and you -- WP7 user -- can't."
Last edited by GeraldKo; 2011-02-13 at 22:08.
 
MINKIN2 is offline MINKIN2
2011-02-13 , 22:51
Posts: 1,326 | Thanked: 1,524 times | Joined on Mar 2010
#1329
Just want to share my current experience here.

I am currently using MSN messenger/live for the first time in ages and it keeps putting adverts in to my conversations for smiley packs. This is not my idea of a good experience.

As for xbox intergation... Well if I can play Xbox games, then it really does not interest me. (a silly comment I know but what's the point if getting Live updates for your mates gamertags? I have an xbox for that)
 
xRobby is offline xRobby
2011-02-13 , 23:05
Posts: 140 | Thanked: 66 times | Joined on Apr 2010
#1330
www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-12427680

according to this, meego is still going ahead, symbian will be replaced by WM8.
i don't see the problem, iOS and andriod are growing in market share, symbian is dying and WP7 is the easy alternative. With Microsoft bing and other services it seems like a good idea. Ship some WM8, while symbian 'burns' and give meego the time it needs this way it won't end up like Maemo did. While a lot of jobs will be lost and the merger seems like a 'conspiracy' Nokia is a buisness, and i for one think that if this buisness plan of Elops means that Meego will have longer to prepare so therefore less bugs and better UI, I'M ALL FOR IT!
 
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