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ragnar is offline ragnar
2009-08-05 , 15:06
Posts: 631 | Thanked: 1,123 times | Joined on Sep 2005 @ Helsinki
#111
Originally Posted by sachin007 View Post
Hey ragnar i would be interested in knowing why nokia dropped developing touch sceen devices after 7710 saying that people were not ready for them. Did you guys at nokia really believe that touch screen phones were not the future?
Well, not believing in touch is obviously not the case. Just look at S60 touch for phones, or Maemo for tablets.

I don't have any real information on this. Personally, and in hindsight: if I would have been a strategic manager at that time, and I would have known of for instance S60 touch plans - the biggest smartphone platform in the world, after all - I would have been very eager in advancing S60 for touch and very cautious in ramping up something completely else, incompatible and competiting with S60 Touch plans, ie. S90 Touch. But that's just me.

We used the S90 devices (7700 and 7710) extensively. They were nice, certainly, but I wouldn't call them yet ready for primetime. Trying to sell them to a wide audience probably wouldn't have resulted in huge sales.
 
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ysss is offline ysss
2009-08-05 , 15:13
Posts: 4,384 | Thanked: 5,524 times | Joined on Jul 2007 @ ˙ǝɹǝɥʍou
#112
Yep, I was about to answer 'bad sales numbers'
Now.. even though they're seeing (relatively) low numbers on 5800 and N97, they're still aiming on a piece of the huge pie that iphone\touch still seem to be eating.
 
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Texrat is offline Texrat
2009-08-05 , 15:52
Posts: 11,700 | Thanked: 10,045 times | Joined on Jun 2006 @ North Texas, USA
#113
Originally Posted by ragnar View Post
Yes, it probably is a question of perspective. From what I and we are sitting, the lack of feedback isn't in the top 5... or top 25 of problems that I would list to be most critical for us or for Nokia. Unfortunately I can't really write the top 5 here or to any public forum.
Hang on a second.

Feedback process SHOULD be in the top 3. See, your response is actually indicative of what I see to be the problem in Nokia. There seems to be this perception that "closing the loop" just isn't that important. Even worse, that input from those impacted by developments is irrelevant.

This isn't something I say lightly or out of left field, Ragnar. This was a HUGE problem identified not just by Nokia US operations but by a significant number of US consumers.

Nokia has a reputation for not listening. Can this be quantified? Sure:

Just check Nokia's US market share.

That's where I'm coming from with this. I live in the US. I know what customers here want. I know what GOOD data was available. I know what the responses were to feedback provided.

The result is very clear, and the numbers don't lie. Nokia lost the smartphone business to Apple and RIM. My point is this did NOT have to happen. We had the information and the means in US operations to prevent this, or at least mitigate it.

There's ... I don't want to say that there's too much feedback, but anyway there is wealth of feedback available for us. From so many different sources. Then again of course there is always the question of whose feedback should you listen to and whose not, and there everyone can have their own opinion. (Then again, this of course is a part of the problem.)
Absolutely! And how much of the decision-making process should be based on opinion, anyway? Very little (not zero though). Again, much of what I have to say is not for public consumption but my point still stands and you are reinforcing it with those statements: the Nokia process was broken for the US. Apple and RIM took advantage of that.

You cannot listen or react to everything, otherwise that would take all of your time plus all the conflicting feedback wouldn't actually help anything.
I'd rather avoid even mentioning the obvious stuff.

Anyways, I wouldn't say that the main problem is that we wouldn't know or have the understanding on what the end result should really be like. But as everyone everyone understands, awareness isn't the final step in any twelve (or 5-step ) program.
Nooo... awareness is the FIRST step. So... where is it? I encountered a resistance to awareness. No company can operate that way and prosper. Conversely, Apple is HIGHLY aware of what it needs to satisfy its targeted demographic. Other than developing regions, Nokia does not seem to know how its target demographics are defined-- despite, as you say, a "wealth" of information.

Understand that my role in Nokia was highly analytical. It was my job to sift the treasure from the trash in the vast sea of information. To subsequently see such efforts disregarded, and Nokia suffer severe loss of market share, was painful.
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Texrat is offline Texrat
2009-08-05 , 15:55
Posts: 11,700 | Thanked: 10,045 times | Joined on Jun 2006 @ North Texas, USA
#114
Originally Posted by ragnar View Post
Well, not believing in touch is obviously not the case. Just look at S60 touch for phones, or Maemo for tablets.
Ragnar, the point is that Nokia did not act properly or swiftly in the area of touch. The 7710 was not followed by the necessary evolution to forestall the iPhone and its brethren. There is no arguing this. The results speak for themselves. Nokia had the ball, and for whatever reason took its eye off.

It didn't have to happen that way.
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ragnar is offline ragnar
2009-08-05 , 16:00
Posts: 631 | Thanked: 1,123 times | Joined on Sep 2005 @ Helsinki
#115
Originally Posted by Texrat View Post
Hang on a second.

Feedback process SHOULD be in the top 3. See, your response is actually indicative of what I see to be the problem in Nokia. There seems to be this perception that "closing the loop" just isn't that important. Even worse, that input from those impacted by developments is irrelevant.
You're misreading me. I said, and let me bold it up: "Yes, it probably is a question of perspective. From what I and we are sitting, the lack of feedback isn't in the top 5... or top 25 of problems that I would list to be most critical for us or for Nokia."

Yes so, I agree with what you said. But looking from the inside out, I wouldn't say that we do not have adequate feedback.
 
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Texrat is offline Texrat
2009-08-05 , 16:07
Posts: 11,700 | Thanked: 10,045 times | Joined on Jun 2006 @ North Texas, USA
#116
Originally Posted by ragnar View Post
You're misreading me. I said, and let me bold it up: "Yes, it probably is a question of perspective. From what I and we are sitting, the lack of feedback isn't in the top 5... or top 25 of problems that I would list to be most critical for us or for Nokia."

Yes so, I agree with what you said. But looking from the inside out, I wouldn't say that we do not have adequate feedback.
Either way MY perspective was from the inside out, too, Ragnar. And I saw things much differently. But I was in a US factory, listening to US customers, watching US sales decline, as competitors stole US share from Nokia, while readily-available data that could have prevented this was seemingly disregarded. Maddening.

Anyway, the results I saw showed that yes, there was a SEVERE lack of adequate feedback-- or at least its handling.

EDIT: okay, I think I see where the confusion is coming from-- and a large part is me dancing around details I can't divulge here. I think I'm gonna have to stop...

I'll write something up after I've put some thought into it.
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Last edited by Texrat; 2009-08-05 at 17:11.
 
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wazd is offline wazd
2009-08-05 , 17:19
Posts: 528 | Thanked: 895 times | Joined on Oct 2007 @ Moscow, Russia
#117
I know what people want.
I know what to do.
I know where's the problem.
I work in Nokia. I love my company.

In this fantastic conditions I'd:
Call engeniers, software designers, any other smart guys, explain the situation, work with them (maybe in some spare time at home with beer'n'snacks) on detailed concept of new phone that will blow minds and showcase it to my boss with statistics and other stuff. If all goes well (and it will cause any sane man will accept detailed project that will help his company), I'd become a chief of new branch of products that will rule the world as I predicted. Lambo, Dominicana trips and Mansion included That's what I would do.
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debernardis is offline debernardis
2009-08-05 , 17:38
Posts: 2,142 | Thanked: 2,054 times | Joined on Dec 2006 @ Sicily
#118
Originally Posted by wazd View Post
... I'd become a chief of new branch of products that will rule the world as I predicted. Lambo, Dominicana trips and Mansion included That's what I would do.
You must be very young, Mr.Wazd, and you need more experience with life, definitely. You'd be fired, sacked, annihilated, promoted to cleaning windows if lucky enough, after doing what you planned.
Go read your Dilbert now
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wazd is offline wazd
2009-08-05 , 17:51
Posts: 528 | Thanked: 895 times | Joined on Oct 2007 @ Moscow, Russia
#119
Even if it will be like this - what's the point of working in company that goes down?
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Texrat is offline Texrat
2009-08-05 , 17:53
Posts: 11,700 | Thanked: 10,045 times | Joined on Jun 2006 @ North Texas, USA
#120
Originally Posted by wazd View Post
Even if it will be like this - what's the point of working in company that goes down?
To get the golden parachute?

Oh wait-- that's just for the CEO.
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