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2011-01-09
, 21:34
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#112
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2011-01-09
, 22:36
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#113
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Originally Posted by efekt
It probably will not. You have only to look at the history of the other Maemo devices to see how "well" Nokia makes the upgrade to the next OS version. They usually have some hardware reason that accompanies their excuse, they (in the past) came out with a "hacker edition" that was missing so much crap that it was basically useless outside of hobbyist usage. The new tactic is to state that the community will come out with their own supported version and so far that's meant Mer, Mer^2, and now Maemo 6/Harmattan/MeeGo 1.x will never get official Nokia support nor push to the existing devices.
I don't think I understand you well - it seems that you think the N9 will not be able to be upgraded to "Nokia's new OS"... But I can't see any evidence that this is what will eventually be (though logically there would be a fragmentation in some point).
Simply put, there isn't any fragmentation. It's just that your device from Nokia will invariably be forgotten once they receive your money and there is hardly ever been an upgrade path despite their attempts to front like there has been, or will be one.
My faith that a community version will deliver a daily usable OS upgrade is next to zilch. They've not done it - the Diablo Community SSU withstanding - and despite a lot of wiki links and/or discussions and Maemo Community meetups, not a damn thing installable has happened yet.
It's the truth as it stands as of January 9th, 2011 and I have zero faith it will change any time soon. If I stepped on your toes and/or ego, tough. The inability to prove me otherwise has placed me (and perhaps others) in that same mindset of this has been a great OS that's been riddled with a bunch of bad politics, worse direction and ultimately a loss of optimism by lack of deliverables.
Feck off cup.
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2011-01-09
, 23:38
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@ Israel
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#114
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Originally Posted by gerbick
REALLY? Interesting. So what would you say about Nokia's new Symbian^3 devices - Nokia stated they would all be upgraded with new features as the Symbian development proceeds, when back then (with the 'older' Symbian versions) this would not happen? Why do you think that Nokia would treat Harmattan-MeeGo otherwise, now when they've finally understood that people want their device's firmware to be upgraded?
It probably will not. You have only to look at the history of the other Maemo devices to see how "well" Nokia makes the upgrade to the next OS version. They usually have some hardware reason that accompanies their excuse, they (in the past) came out with a "hacker edition" that was missing so much crap that it was basically useless outside of hobbyist usage. The new tactic is to state that the community will come out with their own supported version and so far that's meant Mer, Mer^2, and now Maemo 6/Harmattan/MeeGo 1.x will never get official Nokia support nor push to the existing devices.
Simply put, there isn't any fragmentation. It's just that your device from Nokia will invariably be forgotten once they receive your money and there is hardly ever been an upgrade path despite their attempts to front like there has been, or will be one.
My faith that a community version will deliver a daily usable OS upgrade is next to zilch. They've not done it - the Diablo Community SSU withstanding - and despite a lot of wiki links and/or discussions and Maemo Community meetups, not a damn thing installable has happened yet.
It's the truth as it stands as of January 9th, 2011 and I have zero faith it will change any time soon. If I stepped on your toes and/or ego, tough. The inability to prove me otherwise has placed me (and perhaps others) in that same mindset of this has been a great OS that's been riddled with a bunch of bad politics, worse direction and ultimately a loss of optimism by lack of deliverables.
Feck off cup.
Sure, it took Nokia A LOT of time to understand that, and it happened only when Apple and Google started gulping Nokia's market share, but I think that now - once they realized how important this is, they won't let their device's firmware be fragmented so quickly.
This is - of course - only my wishful thinking as beyond this above mentioned Symbian example I've heard nothing concrete of the N9's future firmware upgrades, but I have just a little more faith left in Nokia. You don't, and its your right not to have, thats all...
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As long as people will accept crap, it will be financially profitable to dispense it...
As long as people will accept crap, it will be financially profitable to dispense it...
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2011-01-09
, 23:48
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#115
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Originally Posted by efekt
I think if you look back, I was historically talking about the Maemo devices. In fact, I said:
REALLY? Interesting. So what would you say about Nokia's new Symbian^3 devices - Nokia stated they would all be upgraded with new features as the Symbian development proceeds, when back then (with the 'older' Symbian versions) this would not happen? Why do you think that Nokia would treat Harmattan-MeeGo otherwise, now when they've finally understood that people want their device's firmware to be upgraded?
Originally Posted by me
I was rather specific. Ultimately, nothing has happened in those regards in the past, there's really no reason to do so now, and ultimately nothing has been shown as of yet to show otherwise besides conversation and points to stuff happening.
You have only to look at the history of the other Maemo devices to see how "well" Nokia makes the upgrade to the next OS version.
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2011-01-09
, 23:52
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#116
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All this talk about how Meego and the rumoured N9 will win back all market share and decimate the Android and iOs dominance and how it will outshine all other smartphones etc etc - well just as misplaced pessimism is a bad thing, misplaced optimism without any hard evidence otherwise is a bad thing too.
How many times do we have to place such confidence on Nokia and have it dashed to come to the realization - that unless we see the goods delivered, theres no pint in mindless speculatio about how great Meego and N9 will be.
I do hope it will be great - but can't speculate and wishful think about it.
Till they release some end-consumer thing, Nokia has done zilch with Meego so far.
How many times do we have to place such confidence on Nokia and have it dashed to come to the realization - that unless we see the goods delivered, theres no pint in mindless speculatio about how great Meego and N9 will be.
I do hope it will be great - but can't speculate and wishful think about it.
Till they release some end-consumer thing, Nokia has done zilch with Meego so far.
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2011-01-09
, 23:58
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#117
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Originally Posted by efekt
One reason MIGHT (speculation) be that while Symbian is now relegated for low-end to mid-end devices - which have smaller profit margins - Nokia might be willing to let users upgrade the OS on these devices to bring in more software (OVI) related income instead of hardware upgrades on these devices.
REALLY? Interesting. So what would you say about Nokia's new Symbian^3 devices - Nokia stated they would all be upgraded with new features as the Symbian development proceeds, when back then (with the 'older' Symbian versions) this would not happen? Why do you think that Nokia would treat Harmattan-MeeGo otherwise, now when they've finally understood that people want their device's firmware to be upgraded?
But Meego is on high-end devices - which have bigger profit margins on hardware - hence Nokia might still stick to the old method of forcing users to upgrade hardware with each OS iteration to get that lucrative income on the hardware upgrade. Tough sometimes to give up the lure of hardware upgrade cycle profits and old habits.
Maybe, just maybe they still might not have learnt the lessons as yet.
Apple on the other had has only one portfolio of product - the high-end iPhone. They dont have any low-mid end product portfolio - hence they cant play such two-pronged game.
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2011-01-10
, 01:28
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Joined on Jul 2008
@ Springfield, MA, USA
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#118
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Originally Posted by efekt
You seem rather new here. Hi! Welcome to the Talk.Maemo.org. Welcome, welcome.
I don't think I understand you well - it seems that you think the N9 will not be able to be upgraded to "Nokia's new OS"... But I can't see any evidence that this is what will eventually be (though logically there would be a fragmentation in some point).
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Nokia's slogan shouldn't be the pedo-palmgrabbing image with the slogan, "Connecting People"... It should be one hand open pleadingly with another hand giving the middle finger and the more apt slogan, "Potential Unrealized." --DR
Nokia's slogan shouldn't be the pedo-palmgrabbing image with the slogan, "Connecting People"... It should be one hand open pleadingly with another hand giving the middle finger and the more apt slogan, "Potential Unrealized." --DR
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2011-01-10
, 02:01
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@ Gothenburg in Sweden
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#119
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all those bashing about Nokia not upgrading OS are people her totally blind or what!? we have gotten two already!! And btw... most phones get new firmware for max a year then upgrades stops Nokia or not but this is how it works. And in the case of the so fantastic Android there are plenty of phones that already is not upgraded to >2.2!
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2011-01-10
, 02:07
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#120
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Originally Posted by mikecomputing
are you on the Nokia's payroll? if you are dont tell me you are in thr PR department.
all those bashing about Nokia not upgrading OS are people her totally blind or what!? we have gotten two already!! And btw... most phones get new firmware for max a year then upgrades stops Nokia or not but this is how it works. And in the case of the so fantastic Android there are plenty of phones that already is not upgraded to >2.2!
who gives a crap about other companies and how they do the business. my neighbor is poor dont have a tv or computer or even a car and walks 4 miles to get his groceries. does that mean i should be doing the same?
all i care about is myself and my life and the phone i bought and for thw money i paid i want the company to make it better or atleast fix some security holes. i dont give a damn about what ios or android does i dont use their phone so they can do whatever they want.
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M&M have users, but not even close to symbian. More of producs for geeks. They are also so far limited to one device which also is a factor. Before nokia have several device out on the market. There is no need to make them future proof. The first meego device will be a test and will see if it holds. Otherwise nokia have to present a new OS.
Last edited by Dave999; 2011-01-09 at 21:15.