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Bundyo is offline Bundyo
2008-08-27 , 07:35
Posts: 4,708 | Thanked: 4,649 times | Joined on Oct 2007 @ Bulgaria
#131
Originally Posted by benny1967 View Post
Neither styling widgets nor adding transparency will help you getting an existing desktop application to the tablet. It should be done with as little changes as possible, that's the whole point.

Also, neither styling widgets nor adding transparency will make for a better user experience (in general; I admit there are exceptions). Consistency is one of the most important points in user interfaces, and not using stock widgets but styling your own instead brings inconsistency. (When I say "consistency", I mean consistency not only within an application, but throughout the whole platform and, even more, across platforms. The user knows certain concepts from the desktop, and its a good thing to try to reproduce these in phones, tablets, PDAs or any other computer-like devices. Nobody wants to learn how to operate a new device from scratch.)
That's only some of the points and we already have that available (relatively easy portage of desktop applications to Maemo), but desktop applications waste space and are not touchscreen friendly. I was not talking about porting. I'm talking about the freedom and the ability to develop a new interface without delving in X and starting from scratch or running to Enlightment libraries for help (bloating your app in the way). The GUI frameworks should at least allow you to get out of their chosen consistency, not getting in your way.
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tso's Avatar
tso is offline tso
2008-08-27 , 07:36
Posts: 4,783 | Thanked: 1,253 times | Joined on Aug 2007 @ norway
#132
Originally Posted by danramos View Post
The other thing that I keep wishing for is a scroll wheel. If there were an Intellimouse style scroll wheel on that vast and unused right side of the screen--that would be VERY convenient for those times when I'm reading down a web page, RSS feeds or eBooks (where I'd probably not have the stylus out anyway).
i guess the big problem with scrolling using the dpad is that there is no way to speed up or slow down the scroll depending on what one is doing. that is, scrolling to read or scrolling to get to some other part of the page/text.

meh, what i would do was put a optical mouse pad, like what rayon have been using on their everun. or maybe a small touchpad specifically for scrolling. that way one can scroll in all directions rather then just up or down.

ok, i guess one could also use a trackball or whatever its called.

but then im ok with using the screen to move things around. only that sometimes the pages are so dense with links that finding a place to make contact for dragging is problematic.
 

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Redshift is offline Redshift
2008-08-27 , 07:48
Posts: 63 | Thanked: 4 times | Joined on Feb 2008
#133
Originally Posted by benny1967 View Post
Neither styling widgets nor adding transparency will help you getting an existing desktop application to the tablet. It should be done with as little changes as possible, that's the whole point.

Also, neither styling widgets nor adding transparency will make for a better user experience (in general; I admit there are exceptions). Consistency is one of the most important points in user interfaces, and not using stock widgets but styling your own instead brings inconsistency. (When I say "consistency", I mean consistency not only within an application, but throughout the whole platform and, even more, across platforms. The user knows certain concepts from the desktop, and its a good thing to try to reproduce these in phones, tablets, PDAs or any other computer-like devices. Nobody wants to learn how to operate a new device from scratch.)
I think those advocating changes in the UI are hoping these updates to the UI would take place at a system level and not just on a per application basis - ie, our tablets implementation of Hildon gets revamped so therefore all applications making use of Hildon would be updated. See the first post's reference to Matchbox. This in turn shouldn't add any extra time to the process of Hildonizing existing desktop apps for use on the tablets.
 
Redshift is offline Redshift
2008-08-27 , 07:54
Posts: 63 | Thanked: 4 times | Joined on Feb 2008
#134
Originally Posted by tso View Post
i guess the big problem with scrolling using the dpad is that there is no way to speed up or slow down the scroll depending on what one is doing. that is, scrolling to read or scrolling to get to some other part of the page/text.
Are you referring to kinetic scrolling? I think someone was playing around with that.

http://www.internettablettalk.com/fo...etic+scrolling

The comments were that the current implementation of javascript for MicroB was too slow to handle this, but I think I read somewhere the next version is supposed to have vastly improved javascript speeds so this actually might be a workable solution.
 
ragnar is offline ragnar
2008-08-27 , 07:57
Posts: 631 | Thanked: 1,123 times | Joined on Sep 2005 @ Helsinki
#135
Originally Posted by danramos View Post
Didn't it cost more money to REMOVE them if it was already there?
It blocks development, for one.
 
Redshift is offline Redshift
2008-08-27 , 08:13
Posts: 63 | Thanked: 4 times | Joined on Feb 2008
#136
Originally Posted by gene.cash View Post
I could write a better GUI blind drunk with half a bottle of Tequila left. Where's the sources to Nokia's version of Matchbox?
https://stage.maemo.org/viewcvs.cgi/...maemo&view=log

I think this is it?
 
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qwerty12 is offline qwerty12
2008-08-27 , 08:14
Posts: 4,274 | Thanked: 5,358 times | Joined on Sep 2007 @ Looking at y'all and sighing
#137
That's a log, I've already linked to everything here:
http://www.internettablettalk.com/fo...58&postcount=3
 
Redshift is offline Redshift
2008-08-27 , 08:26
Posts: 63 | Thanked: 4 times | Joined on Feb 2008
#138
Oops, sorry, didn't see your post, thanks!
 
tso's Avatar
tso is offline tso
2008-08-27 , 08:29
Posts: 4,783 | Thanked: 1,253 times | Joined on Aug 2007 @ norway
#139
Originally Posted by Redshift View Post
Are you referring to kinetic scrolling? I think someone was playing around with that.

http://www.internettablettalk.com/fo...etic+scrolling

The comments were that the current implementation of javascript for MicroB was too slow to handle this, but I think I read somewhere the next version is supposed to have vastly improved javascript speeds so this actually might be a workable solution.
not exactly, as imo kinetic scrolling is downright silly.

but what im talking about is a 1:1 between what your doing and what happens on the screen.

this you see with both the mouse, and with the scrollwheel.

move the mouse faster and the pointer on screen moves faster. scroll faster and the page scrolls by faster.

with a dpad you have a set speed. one that often will be to fast if your scrolling while reading, but to slow if your jumping downwards in the page.

the main problem is have with kinetic scrolling is that it takes two taps to do anything. ones you have flicked a page into motion you have to tap to stop it, and then tap again to do anything. if not you risk unwanted triggering on the page.

also, the line between when you trigger the kinetic scroll, and when you dont is imo almost random. right now i have the habit of removing the stylus or finger from the screen as part of the movement. but with kinetic scrolling i have to make sure that what im scrolling is at rest, or i risk sending it zooming of and i have to stop it, and go back up again to find where i was at.

the feedback between physical action and visual effect is very important to me, i guess. as long as i cant feel any mass to what im moving, kinetic scrolling will be a mess for me.
 

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TA-t3 is offline TA-t3
2008-08-27 , 11:01
Posts: 3,841 | Thanked: 1,079 times | Joined on Nov 2006
#140
We can never agree on the "best" user interface, that was clear to me a long time ago already.

Discussing user interfaces and consistency issues is good.

Discussing what's the "best" way and "how it should be" is _useless_.

There is only one answer to that: Bring in the same flexibility as there's on the (X11) desktop: The GUI should either be as configurable as the KDE window manager or e.g. FVWM, or the Hildon stuff should be opened/loosened up enough so that it's easy to replace the actual window manager. Thus, the long-click folks will get their thing, the context-menu folks likewise, ditto fat vs. small menus and icons. And so on.

User choice is the only thing that works for the desktop, it will be the only thing that works for the NIT.
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